Are you working harder than ever, but still can’t turn your brain off—even on weekends? Today’s featured guest is one of the many agency owners who has found it hard to find the right balance to take care of himself as well as the business. Like many agency owners, he made the leap from building someone else’s business to finally building his own. But trading a cozy corporate job for the chaos of running an agency with dozens of clients wasn’t as easy as it looked.

He shares the real challenges of sales, why speed is still the secret to winning leads, and how he’s figuring out how to convert prospects who aren’t quite ready to buy. Most importantly, he opens up about the ongoing struggle to find the right balance between health, family, and keeping the agency growing.

RJ Huebert is the founder of HBT Digital, a Pittsburgh-based lead generation agency helping clients pull in quality leads using online ads that actually convert. After 11 years of climbing the corporate marketing ladder, RJ got tired of building someone else’s dream and decided to bet on himself—and it’s paying off.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he stopped building someone else’s dream.

• How speed wins in lead generation. Always be first to respond.

• Ways to nurture leads that are not ready to buy.

• Why boundaries and self care are more important now than ever.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Building Someone Else’s Empire? Here’s the Wake-Up Call

Like many agency owners before starting their own business, RJ was the corporate marketing guy building someone else’s business, getting them rich, while rising through the ranks and learning how to actually drive results with digital marketing. Also like many others, he hit a moment of questioning whether it was worth it after eleven years.

Sound familiar?

That’s when he decided it was time to test if people would actually pay him for these skills. He got some clients on the side, launched a 5K race company, and eventually opened his own digital marketing agency, proving that you can take your skills and build your own agency if you’re willing to start.

The Attribution Struggle He Faced as an Agency Client

From his experience hiring agencies on the corporate side, one of the biggest frustrations RJ encountered was the attribution nightmare. It wasn’t always easy to see where the lead came from and where they were at in the pipeline. This was some ten years ago, so every agency was siloed: SEO, PPC, outdoor, TV—and each claimed leads but no one could prove it.

And even today, with GA4, HighLevel, UTMs, and tag managers, the truth is:

“Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.”

We’re bombarded with data, but turning it into actionable insight is another story. RJ prefers to establish a baseline, track what matters, and avoid drowning in vanity metrics - like open rates—that don’t impact the client’s bottom line.

Why Speed to Lead Still Wins

Both RJ and Jason agree that speed to lead wins deals.

If you’re not calling leads while they’re still on your website you are likely losing opportunities. Just like you probably click on the first result in a Google search, whoever calls back first is going to win.

If your sales team is still waiting hours (or days) to follow up, you’re leaving money on the table.

Rethinking Nurture Sequences Without Being “That Guy”

Even if you’re not converting them right away, how are you nurturing those leads in a way that doesn’t feel like overkill? First of all, replace boring white papers with short, actionable videos that deliver instant value.

For example, Jason’s Budget Buster video helps prospects get budgets 99% of the time, creating immediate ROI and building trust. Follow that with another bite-sized value piece a few days later. Once leads warm up, move them to your newsletter list.

Have some lead magnets ready, like useful videos you can send each week to warm up that client. After that, you can move that client from the “warm-up” list to a newsletter list, so you can send them valuable content on a daily basis.

Sending daily value-packed emails to engaged subscribers actually increased their domain authority and engagement.

It’s about quality frequency, not spam. Think about what you’d want to receive yourself, not just what you want to send.

The Meta & Google Frustration We’re All Tired Of

Not even Meta is getting emails right, as they send multiple emails a day that don’t really add much value for clients. On top of that, their reps hardly ever provide the right solutions and are mainly focused on “spend more” strategies.

It’s a universal frustration for agency owners, who see Meta is calling clients directly trying to cut their agency out.

It’s one more reason why agencies need to protect their positioning, control client conversations, and not let the platforms dictate strategy.

From One Client to Twenty: The Real Agency Rollercoaster

What’s the hardest shift going from corporate to owning your agency? For RJ, it was going from one clear client you’re focusing on at one moment to having even 20 clients, plus “trying to get clients to pay you, to keep paying you, while finding new ones, and keeping them happy.”

Running an agency turned out to be way harder than he expected. Corporate can be robotic and boring, but on the bright side, you have one client: your boss. Lose that, and you’re done.

In the agency world, a client can fire you, but you’ve got 5, 10, or 20 others paying the bills. The flip side? You’re always on. Even when you’re “off,” your mind is stuck on proposals, scope creep, and that client’s weird Slack message at 10 pm. That’s one of the biggest challenges for RJ at the moment.

Setting Your Priorities Straight with The Right Systems

When it comes to taking care of yourself, your priorities should always be: Health, Family, Agency—In That Order.

However, too often agency owners get their priorities backwards. You have a zillion things you can and should be doing and choosing the priority is the challenge.

That balancing act gets easier once you build the right leadership team and put systems in place that pull you out of the weeds.

But agency owners often struggle to shut their brains off, leading to constant stress, scattered priorities, and burnout cycles that can wreck family time, health, and even your love for the business.

If you’re stuck in the chaos, it’s time to step back and prioritize what actually moves the needle in your agency.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What’s the most unexpected challenge you’ve faced as an agency owner? How did you handle it when things went sideways?

Agency life is full of curveballs, and the only way to keep your business alive is by maintaining perspective and resilience when the unexpected hits.

Today’s featured guest once thought he would lose all the progress he’d made with his agency when the state hit him with a surprise $10K sales tax bill he didn’t even know existed. But now, he looks back and laughs, recognizing that getting through it came down to trusting the right professionals and staying the course.

He firmly believes that keeping your business afloat for the long haul means remembering why clients hire you in the first place — and that focusing on the outcomes that matter is what builds trust and closes deals.

Pete Kleinjan is the founder and owner of Tiger29, an SEO agency that helps local small businesses achieve their sales goals. His agency isn’t a sprawling team of 50; it’s a small, sharp crew focused on what small business clients actually care about: more phone calls, more leads, more sales.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The real reason clients want SEO.

• A lesson on team + preparedness.

• Perspective & resilience when things go sideways.

•  Why you should focus on what won’t change.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Real Reason Clients Want SEO (And Why We Overcomplicate It)

Pete’s first job right out of college was doing credit card collection. It was awful but it trained him in being on the phone multiple hours a day having difficult conversations, which led to his next job selling wheelchair-accessible vans.

As a salesperson, he quickly realized the key to more sales wasn’t grinding harder—it was getting more qualified leads. After he communicated his drive to help bring in more leads, the company’s developer threw him a Wikipedia link to SEO, and Pete dove in, learned FTP, and started tweaking pages himself. That hands-on hunger turned into a full-fledged agency by 2009.

It’s a story he still tells prospects because he knows clients don’t want SEO; they want what SEO brings. They want sales, the Cadillac, the lakehouse dream—not rankings or traffic screenshots, and leading with that terminology could just push them away.

Pete urges agency owners to remember this because it speaks to what small business owners care about: “How do I get more of the customers I want?” When you lead with jargon, you lose your prospect. Lead with the transformation.

The Unexpected $10K Sales Tax Bill (And a Lesson on Team + Preparedness)

A couple of years into his agency, Pete received a letter from the state labeled “sales tax review” (not audit, but let’s be real—it was an audit). Turns out, in South Dakota, consulting services are taxable, and the state decided local SEO link-building and citation placement fell under “taxable consulting.” This little “surprise” ended with Pete writing a $10,000 check to the state.

For a moment, Pete considered fighting it and asked his attorney brother for advice. However, his brother put it in perspective for him: pay the $10K or pay a lawyer to sue and likely have the state fight you all the way to the Supreme Court. It wasn’t fun, but it was the best decision for his peace of mind.

For him, the big takeaway was: Hire a good bookkeeper and CPA who know your local tax nuances. You don’t want to be the expert in tax law, just like your clients shouldn’t have to be experts in SEO. Pete chose not to pass that bill back to his clients because it was his mistake, and it would be unfair. But it also taught him to be proactive in areas outside his zone of genius by building a team of experts who handle the boring (but crucial) details.

Perspective and Resilience When Things Go Sideways

Pete’s tax story caused sleepless nights at the time, but looking back, he laughs about it. Because here’s the hard truth about agency ownership: Money challenges, curveballs, and “surprise” bills are going to happen. Your ability to weather these storms without spiraling is what separates owners who build sustainable agencies from those who burn out.

When you’ve been in the game long enough, you realize it’s never all rainbows, and there’s always something around the corner that could trip you up. But when you remember why you’re in business—to build a life you love, not just a bigger agency—it becomes easier to shake off setbacks and focus on what matters: your health, your team, your freedom, and your ability to keep moving forward.

Focus on What Won’t Change

In a recent interview, Jeff Bezos was asked about how he thought things would change in five years. His answer was that instead of obsessing over what will change, he prefers focusing on what won’t change.

No matter what, clients will always want results. They’ll always want things on time. They’ll always want problems solved by real humans who care. Whether you’re using AI, TikTok or any other platform, those core truths will remain.

We can often get distracted by tools and trends (AI, new social platforms, “the next algorithm hack”). But the tools in your box will change; your job—to deliver transformation to clients—will not. Build your business around timeless principles like clear communication, trust, and delivering results, and you’ll outlast any trend.

AI, Avatars, and Authenticity

With the coming wave of AI avatars, deepfakes, and synthetic influencers, how should agency owners use these tools while maintaining authenticity?

Yes, you could deploy an AI influencer for your agency, especially if you’re camera-shy. But as Pete shared, their social media commandment #1 is “it has to be real.” Their scrappy videos may not be as polished as some big agencies, but they convert because they’re authentic, quirky, and genuinely helpful.

In a future where clients may question if what they see online is real, your authenticity will become your moat. Using AI should amplify your agency’s personality, not replace it, so let your realness be your competitive advantage.

Selling What Clients Need, Not What You Want to Sell

A small business owner struggling for two years with a site that wouldn’t show up on Google. Why? A simple “do not index” box was checked in WordPress. Everyone else was trying to pitch her a free “strategy call” (AKA sales call), but Pete charged for an SEO Power Hour, solved her problem immediately, and won her trust.

The takeaway for Pete was that it’s good he didn’t default to “selling a new website” when a client came for SEO. Don’t push a service because it’s your highest margin offer. Sell what they actually need. When you do, you become their trusted advisor, not another expense they’re trying to cut.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Running an agency can feel like chaos on repeat—clients, team stress, and no clear direction. You’re not alone. Today’s featured guest has built and sold a $3M+ agency, kept employee turnover under 5%, and is now launching a focused, values-driven agency built to thrive in today’s market. He shares some hard-won lessons on building a culture your team will never want to leave, attracting clients who respect your expertise, and creating the clarity and focus you need to scale without burning out. If you’re an agency owner who’s tired of the chaos and wants a clearer, saner path forward, this conversation will give you a roadmap worth following.

Colin Hetherington is the founder of the newly minted Common Good in Dublin, but he’s no rookie. Before that, he co-founded Zoo Digital, growing it past $3M a year before it was acquired, and even earlier, he pitched and built agency.com’s Dublin presence when Ireland barely had broadband.

After building and scaling agency.com Ireland, Colin and two colleagues grabbed coffee after a client meeting and decided, “There’s a better way to do this.” It wasn’t a grand plan with a 50-slide deck. It was a hunch—and a leap of faith.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he believes in taking the leap before you’re ready.

• Build systems or burn out.

• How to keep turnover at less than 5%.

• Why focus is the ultimate power move.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Look for the Venn Diagram Sweet Spot

Colin’s first experience in digital marketing came when he worked for an agency in San Francisco back in 1999. At iTraffic, subsequently taken over by Agency.com, he learned about what was called at the time ‘internet advertising’, and five years later he pitched the idea of setting up Agency.com in Dublin. 

Their developing edge was putting strategy, creative, and technology under one roof at a time when agencies treated digital as an afterthought. That unique combination allowed them to win big clients like the National Lottery and the Irish Tourism Board with a tiny seven-person team.

In just two years, they went from zero to driving 12% of the group’s revenue and Colin and his partners felt ready to grow their own business.

Hitting Their Stride with Innovation

Zoo launched in 2008, right before the Great Recession and right as businesses started pulling back and budgets evaporated. However, they were able to adapt by winning some solid clients and partnering quietly behind the scenes with agencies that couldn’t handle digital in-house. They found scrappy ways to deliver big ideas on smaller budgets, often using student illustrators or leaner production.

By 2015, they’d grown the team to fourteen people and were hitting their stride with their original formula of combining strategy, creative, and technology under one roof that led them to work with big names like Redbull.

After bringing innovation to countless brand events, Colin’s agency started focusing on UX and got an important partnership with one of the largest banks in Ireland. While not every flashy innovation won new business immediately, it got them on pitch lists and made their team proud.

Hiring Before You’re Ready

Colin’s hiring strategy has always been taking leaps of faith. Instead of hiring one by one, they’d hire in threes or fours—betting on themselves to fill the pipeline. This was even back when they couldn’t forecast beyond five months.

For Colin, there was no use in debating and agonizing over these leaps for weeks when the team was already stretched for 1–2 months straight. Playing too small can be riskier than making bold, smart bets and, as they learned over time, taking those leaps of faith paid off every time. Every time they made that leap, the new team members were busy almost immediately.

Build Systems or Burn Out

On the other hand, Colin was not as quick to scale processes as they grew the team, which resulted in many projects being delayed and clients rightly unhappy about the situation.

At one point, Colin was heading to a client meeting with that sick-to-your-stomach feeling that they were about to get fired for missing deadlines. They didn’t get fired, but the client laid it out: “We love you, but can you ever deliver on time?”

That wake-up call pushed Colin to bring in operations help, implement systems, and build scalable processes so they could grow without chaos. This next step also required them to admit they just weren’t great project managers and needed outside help to build the foundations to grow the business.

Culture Is What You Live, Not What You Write

Colin managed to keep his agency’s employee turnover at less than 5% by putting a heavy focus on culture while he was at Zoo. It’s easy to slap a “values” page on your agency’s website. He understood that reducing churn meant reducing time spent on getting people up to speed, for instance, but he also understood that culture isn’t what you write down—it’s what you live.

For Colin, it all came down to leadership and how the leadership team delivers culture. For starters, they treated people like adults, trusting their team to own their work without micromanagement, and recognizing that work is just one part of life.

When hard times hit, like during COVID, Colin and his partners were transparent. They had to temporarily reduce salaries but promised to pay it back when the storm cleared—and they did. That act of integrity built trust in a way no ping-pong table or Slack emoji ever could.

Your Values Attract the Right Clients (and Repel the Wrong Ones)

If you’ve ever worked with a nightmare client—the kind who demands everything yesterday, disrespects your team, and thinks paying your invoice is a license to treat you like dirt—yyou know the toll it takes on your team and energy. On this, Jason and Colin agree: it’s better to walk away.

Colin has learned that sharing the unspoken values you hold as a team don’t just keep your culture healthy; they also shape the clients you attract. The best, longest-lasting client relationships he had were with organizations that shared similar values around respect, partnership, and clear communication. As to the nightmare clients? Those relationships were doomed from day one because the values were out of sync.

Focus Is the Ultimate Power Move

After selling Zoo, Colin is launching his new agency, Common Good, with one big lesson in mind: Focus beats everything.

Instead of being a generalist, Colin is zeroing in on serving state and civil service organizations in Ireland. He believes these organizations are doing important work that deserves to be communicated well—and that clear positioning will set them apart in a market where every agency says the same thing about their “process, portfolio, and people.”

What’s more, Colin isn’t trying to build another 60-person agency. He’s embracing the shift in the market toward lean, senior teams that can deliver high-quality work without unnecessary bloat.

If you’re still in the grind of your first agency, it’s normal not to have perfect clarity yet. You have to try things, learn what drains your energy, and double down on what gives you energy. The sooner you build reflection time into your schedule, the sooner you’ll find your agency’s true direction.

It may be hard to take the time to really think about these things. The day-to-day of running an agency can drown you in Slack messages, client calls, and fires to put out. But stepping back—even for a few hours each week—to reflect on where you’re going and why can be the difference between a business that drifts and one that thrives.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Buying another agency sounds like a shortcut to scale — but if you skip the wrong step or miss the wrong promise, you might inherit more problems than profit. But how do you actually approach due diligence to ensure a seamless, profitable acquisition?

Today’s featured guest learned these lessons the hard way. What started as a promising deal quickly revealed cracks, forcing him and his partner to navigate unexpected challenges to pull the agency through. In the process, he discovered the key questions you must ask before buying another agency and the hidden details that can make or break your investment.

If you’re an agency owner thinking about using acquisitions as a growth strategy, today’s conversation will equip you with real-world insights to avoid costly mistakes and set your agency up for a smoother, successful expansion.

Matt Marchetta is an agency owner with two decades of experience who recounts his journey in the industry, from starting his first web design business in high school to pivoting into e-commerce and ultimately becoming a digital nomad.

He teamed up with a partner to acquire Growth Labs, a lead generation shop focused on outbound. He goes over some of the challenges and crucial lessons learned during the acquisition process, particularly concerning due diligence, unforeseen client guarantees, and the original owner's significant personal brand influence on the agency's client base.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why buy another agency in the first place?

• Due diligence traps that cost real money.

• The ROI guarantee that almost blew up the deal.

• 4 questions you must ask before your next acquisition

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Solo Hustle to Ecom Growth Machine

Matt started his agency journey as a kid who just wanted to work for himself and quickly learned the hard way—like many do—that running a business isn’t just about being good at the work, it’s about learning the business of business. It’s a time he remembers fondly as a great foundation for his business education.

He pivoted early from generalist design and dev work into e-commerce, riding that wave as it grew. Over time, he layered in Facebook ads, video production, and photography to support product marketing for his clients. And while many were stuck in offices, Matt was ahead of the curve, running remote from day one, carving out a lifestyle business that let him travel, stay flexible, and keep agency life fun.

In fact, he never thought seriously about the possibility of selling his agency, since it’s something he really enjoys doing and didn’t think he’d ever get an offer that would compare to what he thinks it’s worth.

Why Buy an Agency?

So why would a guy who loves the freedom of his own agency buy another one?

Simple: leverage and evolution.

Matt and his current business partner decided it was time to level up their respective agencies. They were both tired of being generalists and saw an opportunity to specialize, automate, and potentially transition out of day-to-day client grind by acquiring a business with the right foundation.

They didn’t go hunting for a big fish they couldn’t afford. Instead, they targeted a sub-seven-figure agency they could buy at a fair multiple, with the goal of systemizing and growing it. Enter Growth Labs, an outbound lead gen agency specializing in cold email marketing.

What They Looked For Before the Purchase

Matt and his partner moved fast but smart:

• Profit and Loss: They dug into five years of P&Ls, noticing the typical COVID spike, post-spike drop, and finally profitability as the owner prepared to sell.

• Adbacks Reality Check: The books had plenty of “personal expenses” that, once removed, showed a clearer, stronger profit picture.

• Pipeline and Clients: They signed an NDA to peek at client lists, learning that the agency’s lead gen often came from the owner’s personal brand and reputation—great for credibility, but also something they’d need to replace with systems.

• Recurring vs. One-Off: They checked churn, recurring revenue, and how the business handled its leads and delivery so they wouldn’t be buying a leaky bucket.

Fast Close, Strategic Future

In true operator fashion, Matt and his partner put in an offer quickly (about three weeks after initial discussions) and agreed on a 1.3x EBITDA multiple. They wanted the former owner to stick around for a transition period, ensuring continuity while they layered in their own systems and strategic direction.

Everything looked clean. The seller had a strong personal brand. The books checked out (after adbacks). The plan was clear: earnout over three years, phased transition, and keep the seller involved for 12 months to ensure smooth client handoff and he agreed to do it.

Then the cracks appeared.

The ROI Guarantee Bomb

While poking around Slack before the official handover, Matt found discussions about an ROI guarantee with a disgruntled client. The seller brushed it off as a “Horoszi-level mistake from years back.”

No big deal, right?

Wrong.

Turns out, most new client contracts still included these ROI guarantees—often unwritten, often unenforceable, and often unrealistic. Combine that with underperforming cold email campaigns, and you have a recipe for churn, complaints, and a legal minefield.

What was supposed to be a 2-month campaign turned into 12-month obligations with clients expecting a magical ROI that the agency couldn’t verify, let alone control.

4 Lessons Matt Learned (So You Don’t Have to)

In hindsight, Matt admits they moved too fast. A few weeks wasn’t enough because due diligence should take longer than you think. His advice for agency owners is not to feel pressured—take the time to ask uncomfortable questions and look for patterns and keep these 4 aspects in mind:

1. Don’t just check contracts. Check promises. Matt discovered clients were sticking around for the wrong reasons—and the wrong terms—due to handshake promises that should’ve been flagged during due diligence.

2. Thoroughly analyze client data and churn patterns. Analyze the available metrics to determine whether or not clients are actually reaching goals. In his case, Matt found that using AI would’ve helped him uncover that consistent MRR masked a perfect churn pattern: lose three clients, gain three clients, every month. AI could’ve shown these patterns in minutes.

3. Expect that when the seller leaves, 80-90% of their lead gen leaves with them. If the agency’s pipeline depends on the owner’s personal brand, you need a plan to replace that before you wire funds.

4. Dig deeper into why the seller is selling—and why they started. Was the agency a real business solving a real need, or just a personal brand ATM for the founder? That origin story tells you how the business was run and what baggage you’re buying.

The Silver Lining

Was it all doom and gloom? Nope.

Matt discovered that despite the outdated “spray and pray” cold email approach, the agency’s foundations were solid: a capable team, strong email infrastructure, and processes that could be upgraded with AI personalization and scalable systems.

Instead of throwing in the towel, Matt is now rebuilding Growth Labs into a smarter, tech-enabled lead-gen agency aligned with the future, not the past.

And despite the headaches, Matt and his business partner are still hungry for more acquisitions, now with clear systems and smarter questions in hand. They’re even considering rolling up a group of specialist agencies as their next move.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

We’ve been talking about AI on this podcast for years — not just as the next shiny tool, but as the biggest shift agencies will face this decade. Yet most agencies still haven’t done more than dabble. Meanwhile, their competitors (or even their clients) are using AI to move faster, make sharper decisions, and drive results that leave everyone else scrambling to catch up. If you’re still on the sidelines, you’re already behind.

Today’s guest is clear about the game-changing role of AI in the agency world. He argues it’s not just about making your shop more efficient — it’s about driving better client results, delivering faster, deeper insights, and adding to your bottom line.

Agencies that fail to embrace AI risk being outpaced by clients who bring it in-house or by competitors already using it to gain an edge. To stay competitive, you have to take a forward-thinking approach that uses AI to scale operations, increase client value, and keep your best people.

Phil Parrish is the co-founder & President of PrograMetrix, a boutique programmatic advertising agency that also crushes it in paid search and paid social. Celebrating their 10-year anniversary this past April, Phil’s team has stayed nimble, focused, and mighty — helping clients dominate their digital paid media while driving real, measurable results. He’ll discuss his vision on AI, how he’s using it as a multiplier, and why that are not already adapting their processes to include this technology, will be exposed.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Navigating pipeline churn anxiety.

• Delivering quick wins with AI.

• Why agencies that don’t adapt will get exposed.

• Focus on the wins, not just the tasks.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Betting on Yourself (And Getting Clients to Bet on You Too)

Phil didn’t stumble into agency ownership by accident, but he didn’t overcomplicate it either. He built strong client relationships over the years, recognized the moment when he thought, “I can do what this company does — why not do it for myself?” and took the leap. With clients ready to follow, he launched PrograMetrix and started generating revenue quickly, sidestepping much of the risk that keeps many would-be agency owners stuck.

The takeaway? If you’ve built trust and consistently delivered, clients will follow when you launch your own shop. Relationships and results are your best startup capital.

Navigating Uncertainty Without Panic

Every agency owner hits moments of chaos—those “Are we going under?” nightmares that keep you up at 3 AM. So far, Phil’s journey hasn’t quite hit the “we can’t make payroll” panic, but pipeline uncertainty and client churn anxiety were very real, especially during COVID-19.

Ironically, the pandemic ended up being a huge growth driver. As trade shows and in-person events vanished, clients who were spending six figures on live events had to redeploy budgets digitally. PrograMetrix was perfectly positioned to catch that wave.

“You’ve got to have a good business plan, offer strategic value, make smart bets, and stay laser-focused when your back’s against the wall.”

It’s a solid reminder: when chaos hits, the cream rises. The agencies that pivot fast come out stronger.

AI: Beyond Social Posts and Rocket Emojis

Let’s get real: most agencies are looking at AI like it’s a shortcut to crank out social posts and blog content (and yes, that’s part of it). But Phil’s approach is a level above—he’s integrating AI deeply into PrograMetrix’s operations to enhance speed, insights, and performance, not just save a few hours per week.

In his view, agencies that have depended on time as their inventory and work on the basis that the more time they can utilize the more revenue they can drive will struggle unless they modernize operations using AI.

For its part, Phil’s agency is building a proprietary product using a licensed data warehouse, pulling data from all their platforms (The Trade Desk, Meta, Google, TikTok, LinkedIn, etc.), and using AI to run advanced queries and develop unique optimization techniques. The end goal would be to deliver faster, clearer, and more impactful insights that clients can’t get by simply logging into their ad accounts.

The bottom line: If your agency isn’t embedding AI into how you operate and deliver, not just as a tool to “save time,” clients will either bring it in-house or go with an agency that does. The market is moving, and speed and value are non-negotiables if you want to win and retain serious clients.

Delivering Quick Wins and Story-Driven Insights

Mid-market and enterprise clients dropping six to seven figures on ad spend need to feel your authority and your velocity from day one. They need to breathe easier knowing your agency has it handled, and they need to see progress fast, or they’ll be out.

Using AI, Phil’s agency uncovers insights like:

• Path to conversion (impressions and touchpoints before a sale)

• Channel impact across the funnel

• Audience segment insights

• Messaging that drives real ROI

They’re not just sending reports but turning complex data into actionable stories for their clients. If you’re still measuring your agency’s success by how much time you can bill rather than how much impact you can deliver, it’s time to rethink your model before your clients rethink you.

Why Agencies That Don’t Adapt Will Get Exposed

Look, AI isn’t going to wipe out agencies. But it will wipe out agencies that are stuck operating like it’s 2015, coasting on outdated processes, and sending the same recycled reports clients can pull themselves.

AI is like the giant scoreboard in baseball, showing every advanced stat in real-time. Agencies that are half-assing delivery can’t hide anymore. If you’re running bad ads, AI will show your client you suck, and you’ll get fired. (Like the agency I just fired.)

AI won’t kill the agency model, but it will expose agencies not using best-of-breed tools to deliver value faster.

AI as a Multiplier, Not a Threat — and Saves Him $200K

Phil is using AI as a force multiplier to:

• Deliver faster, clearer insights for clients

• Optimize campaigns for even a 2-3% lift that compounds over time

And they’re doing this without having to invest in new talent at the rate they otherwise would have. As Phil says, “if we can skip hiring one or two traders, that’s a $200K swing to the bottom line.” And it’s not because he doesn’t value his team—he’s investing in making his team better. AI helps smart people do better work, get better results, and actually enjoy their jobs.

Clients see more value, your agency scales efficiently, and your team sticks around longer, reducing churn and recruitment costs.

It’s About Buying Wins, Not Just Doing Tasks

If you’ve seen Moneyball, know Billy Beane reinvented baseball by focusing on “getting on base,” not vanity stats. Agencies should think the same way:

• What are your “get on base” moves that drive client results?

• Are you outcome-driven and problem-solving, or are you a task rabbit waiting to be replaced by AI?

When clients have big challenges, do they come to you first, or are you stuck doing low-value production work? If it’s the latter, it’s a sign to reposition your agency now. If you don’t, you’re writing your own exit letter from the industry.

Make AI Use Mandatory, Not Optional

As an agency leader, it’s time to go all-in on integrating AI across all SOPs, not just as an add-on for the leadership team. Why? Because this tech:

• Makes employees more valuable in the marketplace

• Makes them happier by removing annoying, low-leverage tasks

• Keeps your team aligned with your agency’s growth goals

Before they started using AI prompts to understand how to optimize a campaign or improve performance, their campaign managers were conducting huge Excel exports. Now they can focus on strategy. If you’re the only one using AI in your agency, you’re toast. You need to lead, train, and require your team to use these tools to become outcome-focused problem solvers rather than task executors.

Stop Being Fearful. Start Doing

If you’re feeling fear around AI, that’s normal. But you’ll stay scared if you don’t start using it. Phil’s team didn’t wait for a perfect moment; they’re actively building, testing, and refining AI use across their delivery and ops. The agencies that will win over the next 3-5 years aren’t the ones worrying about AI—they’re the ones using it to solve bigger problems faster for their clients.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is churn currently a problem with your agency clients? Are you aware of the reasons they decide to leave? It may be time to think hard about your onboarding process, client communication, and generally the ways you’re ensuring client satisfaction. The difference often comes down to positioning: are you operating as a trusted advisor or simply completing tasks? Today's special guest knows that agencies that prioritize client satisfaction, embrace accountability, and focus on becoming trusted advisors rather than mere task completers are the ones that create truly loyal clients.

As our Agency Scale Specialist, Darby Copenhaver, has closely observed the growth trajectories of numerous mastermind members and constantly communicates with them in their journeys. In this conversation, he and Jason get into the importance of strong communication and transparent onboarding processes to combat buyer's remorse and build trust.

They also address the strategic use of AI to enhance efficiency and results, stressing that while AI can automate tasks, human connection and understanding clients' evolving needs remain paramount for long-term partnerships.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to prevent your clients’ buyer's remorse.

• Your onboarding might be the problem.

• Stop ignoring current clients.

• Your secret retention weapon: ongoing discovery.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Why Your Clients Might Not Love You (Even if You’re Getting Results)

Ever feel like you’re crushing it for clients, but then they ghost you or churn unexpectedly? There are several reasons why this could be happening and ways to stop it before it kills your momentum.

Here’s the truth: buyers remorse sets in immediately after a client signs. It’s your job to kill that remorse with rock-solid communication and a frictionless onboarding experience. Most agencies think they’re good communicators because they answer emails. But clients want more than tasks checked off. They want to feel seen, understood, and confident they made the right decision. If you’re not proactively communicating wins (and misses), or if you let your PMs control the narrative without your oversight, you’re setting yourself up for churn, no matter how “good” your delivery is.

Your Onboarding Might Be Pushing Clients Away

As Jason knows from recent experiences as a client, most agencies’ onboarding is just an exhausting homework dump on clients who already told you their goals in the sales calls you recorded. Why are you making them repeat themselves, fill out giant forms, or wait for your scattered follow-ups?

Your clients didn’t hire you to do more work. They hired you to get results while saving them time.

• Break your onboarding into clear, easy phases,

• Reset expectations,

• Use the data you already have (like call transcripts and AI sorting) to fill in the blanks yourself.

If you set clear timelines, communication rhythms, and how success will be measured in that first meeting, you’ll position yourself as a trusted advisor, not another vendor barking for “assets” they’ve already shared. This is what makes clients relieved to work with you instead of stressed.

Communication: Simple, But Rarely Done Right

It’s so important for any business to show that you’re trustworthy, and you’ll show that by doing what you say you’ll do, when you say you’ll do it. Too many agencies fail to communicate delays, let tasks slip, and think a monthly dashboard is enough. It’s not.

Dashboards alone mean nothing to most clients. Some need a quick Loom, some need Slack check-ins, others need a simple “Here’s what we did, what’s next, and why it matters.” Customizing your communication style shows your clients you’re paying attention to them, not just copy-pasting your agency SOPs onto their business. This is how you become a trusted advisor, the person they call with challenges (not just tasks). That’s how you become irreplaceable.

So, which measures are you implementing at your agency to ensure - not just assume - that you know your clients are happy, not only with the results presented but also the overall experience?

Want Clients to Stick Around? Be Human

When was the last time you called a client you didn’t personally sell or deliver on, just to check in and say, “Hey, I’m the CEO, here’s my number if you need anything”?

Most agencies never do this, but it’s one of the simplest ways to build relationships that survive budget cuts and economic slowdowns. If clients only see you as a transaction, you’re the first thing to get cut. If they see you as a partner, they’ll fight to keep you.

Want to take it further? Fly out and have dinner with your top clients once a year. Exchange stories, show them you care, and watch how your retention and upsells climb.

Stop Leaving Money on the Table by Ignoring Current Clients

Agencies love to yell, “We need more leads!” But often, your easiest growth is sitting right in front of you. If your clients trust you, they’ll come to you with new problems—many of which you can solve or connect them with someone who can. This positions you as a problem solver, not an order taker.

Instances like this are a great opportunity to be strategic, guide them, and reinforce how much you value the relationship. Results are awesome, but that value is what will take from being transactional to being a value relationship they’ll fight to keep in times of economic uncertainty.

Why Ongoing Discovery Is Your Secret Retention Weapon

If you’re selling to clients you can’t grow with, you’re setting yourself up for frustration. Too many agencies say “yes” to clients who aren’t ready, don’t want help, or can’t commit to scaling. It’s like hiring a personal trainer while refusing to stop eating cake every night. They might pay you, but they won’t get results—and they’ll blame you when they don’t.

And what about after you’ve found the right clients? Darby believes too many agencies forget that discovery isn’t just for the sales process. Every client interaction should be a sort of ongoing discovery. Agencies that retain and grow accounts are constantly in ongoing discovery mode.

As you bring success to clients their needs will evolve, their businesses shift, and what worked four months ago might be irrelevant today. If you’re not in tune with those shifts, your agency becomes stale, and you’ll get replaced.

A challenge for agency owners: How are you staying aware of what’s changing in your clients’ businesses? Are you proactively checking in, asking about priorities, and aligning your services to what’s happening right now? Or are you stuck on autopilot, delivering what they hired you for while missing what they actually need today? Stay curious, stay in discovery, and you’ll stay essential.

Communication Clarity: 411 vs. 911

To prevent the typical disconnect when clients are unsure of who to reach out to and for what, Darby and Jason recommend this simple but powerful tactic brought by Agency Mastery member, Travis. He tells clients exactly who to reach out to for “411” (info & updates) vs. “911” (emergencies). This eliminates confusion, speeds up communication, and prevents small issues from turning into big frustrations.

And when you mess up—and you will—own it fast. Clients don’t want spin or silence. They want the truth — fast. One agency Jason used messed up an ad so badly it was embarrassing, and instead of calling to own it, they hid behind Slack messages. Don’t be that agency. Mistakes happen. What matters is how quickly and humanly you fix them.

Be Human. Clients Crave It.

At the heart of retention and growth is human connection. If your agency relationships feel like sterile transactions, you’re replaceable. Clients want to feel seen and understood. If everything you share sounds like sugarcoated wins while their results lag, they’ll start doubting you.

Long-term, high-value clients come from humanizing your interactions—having real conversations, admitting mistakes, sharing wins, and being upfront about challenges. Clients don’t want perfect robots; they want partners they trust.

Don’t Fear AI - Use It to Win

Do clients want their agencies to use AI? Overwhelmingly, yes. They just don’t what you to use it just to write articles and create crappy images, brands want their agencies using AI to get better results. According to a survey conducted by Audience Audit, 77% of brands are more likely to hire an agency seen as an AI expert, yet only 32% think their current agency is.

This is a massive opportunity. But here’s the key: don’t use AI as a crutch to replace human strategy. Use it to collect, analyze, and interpret data faster so you can bring clients valuable insights and make micro-adjustments that drive real results. Clients want done-for-you solutions that leverage AI under the hood while preserving a human relationship on the front end.

Just remember that clients don’t care about your systems, your dashboards, or your internal processes if they don’t lead to results. They want outcomes with as little friction as possible. AI can help you cut busywork, speed up insights, and refine strategy—but it’s your human understanding and relationship that keeps clients paying, referring, and expanding their contracts.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you invest in training high-potential employees to grow into leadership roles—or do you prefer to hire seasoned pros from the start? There’s no one-size-fits-all approach to building a great team, but today’s featured guest has a clear philosophy: when it comes to agency growth, he prefers to develop A-players from within. For him, building the bench is just as important as building the business.

Hamlet Azarian is the founder and CEO of Azarian Growth Agency, an agency that works with mid-market venture-backed startups helping them build their go-to-market strategies. He discusses his agency’s "build them up" strategy, focusing on continual learning and curiosity through an academy, webinars, and internships, rather than solely hiring seasoned professionals.

He’ll address the common agency challenge of talent retention, noting that positive experiences can still lead to future referrals and positive word-of-mouth, even if employees eventually move on. It’s an interesting episode where we dive into the importance of human capital and fostering a supportive, value-driven environment for agency success.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Growing talent from scratch.

• Promote those who are ready to shine.

• The secret to employee retention. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Go-to Fixer to Full Agency

Before he was running his own growth agency, Hamlet was the go-to fixer for venture-backed startups in the trenches of pre-product chaos. VCs brought him in as a high-paid consultant to help fragile startups figure out product validation and go-to-market traction — a risky sandbox where there’s barely a product and hardly any money.

As the companies he touched turned into multi-million-dollar powerhouses, word got around, more VCs lined up, and the Azarian Growth Agency was born. So as he recalls, it wasn’t exactly an accidental start, but considering he was helping startups that could barely write a check, he could not see it turning into a full agency in the beginning.

A Culture of Relentless Learning

One thing Hamlet doesn’t compromise on is curiosity. If you run an agency, you know yesterday’s marketing tactic is today’s LinkedIn meme. So instead of hiring only ‘seasoned experts,’ He invests in creating lifelong learners.

How? He built Azarian Growth Academy, which trains up-and-coming marketers on the exact growth strategies his agency deploys for high-stakes startups. Add to that a monthly Growth Lab webinar, Udemy courses (4,000+ students and counting), and a robust internship pipeline — and you get a team that knows not just what to do, but why it works.

Education is really central for Hamlet so his people don’t just follow checklists — they evolve with the market because they understand the principles behind the tactics.

Growing Talent from Scratch (and Letting Them Fly)

Does it work? Hamlet shares a story that answers that better than any hiring manifesto.

One intern joined as a college senior, left, and rejoined when Hamlet officially hung out his agency shingle. When he saw her application, Hamlet immediately hired her, as she knew her aptitude, passion, and even her weaknesses. Within 6 months, she was running paid ads. By year one, she was pitching clients solo. By year two, she was leading teams and today she’s a senior department head.

The lesson here is drive and curiosity should be backed with training, opportunity, and real trust. The payoff is massive loyalty and in-house expertise that’s molded to your agency’s playbook — not someone else’s.

Promotion by Performance, Not the Calendar

Forget annual reviews and rigid promotion ladders. Hamlet’s approach is simple: Learn fast, deliver results, get rewarded. To him, some people shine faster than others and, as the agency owners, you don’t to limit that potential.

Of course, you want to prepare them for the new role, so he tests emerging talent on internal agency projects before putting them on client accounts.

If they mess up, the agency learns — not the client’s bank account. It’s a safe sandbox for risk-taking and skill-building, with performance as the only true gatekeeper to moving up.

Flexibility: The Secret Sauce to Keeping Good People

How can you keep that talent from jumping ship the second they hit senior level? You don’t always. And Hamlet says that’s perfectly fine.

Even with AI evolving daily, Hamlet’s clear that an agency’s real moat is people — smart, motivated, curious people who feel trusted and supported to do their best work. Tools change. Channels come and go. But the humans who run them? That’s your agency’s real asset.

In his view, the agency’s success is predicated on the owner’s ability to bring in talented people on to the team and provide a great environment that encourages them to stay. And the definition of “great” in this case may vary from individual to individual, but Hamlet finds that more than  perks or a foosball table or free LaCroix, it’s about freedom.

People need room to live their lives — whether that’s hopping on a plane to Italy with the kids, or working flexible hours so family time doesn’t clash with client deadlines.

When people feel understood and trusted, they stay longer. And if they do leave? They become allies, not competitors. Many send referrals back. Some boomerang and return. And nearly all say, “That’s where I learned how to do great work.”

That reputation becomes your best recruiting tool — a self-feeding loop of great people wanting in.

Experience vs. Fresh Eyes: A Never-Ending Balancing Act

There’s a million ways to grow an agency and there are no easy answers when it comes to hiring. Even if you hire the “experienced pro,” they can become rigid and slow to adapt — a death knell for early-stage growth marketing where experimentation rules.

Hamlet’s advice is don’t bet the farm on resumes alone. Bet on mindset. Surround yourself with good people who share the same values. Look for curiosity, a love of learning, and the ability to fail, recover, and share lessons. Skills can be taught. Hunger can’t.

Define what you believe. Hire for it relentlessly. Train for skill, reward growth, and build an environment people don’t want to leave — and if they do, they still sing your praises.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How are you positioning your services as essential rather than optional, and accurately measuring growth and profitability to sustain long-term success? How are you measuring your agency’s growth and profitability? Today’s featured guests unpack how they scaled their PR shop past the million-dollar mark in under four years — and their journey offers valuable insights that any agency owner can apply immediately. Learn why they prefer growing the agency as partners, as opposed to sticking to being solopreneurs, how they’ve been tracking their growth, and how to over-communicate with clients openly so that choosing you is the easiest decision.

Caitlin Copple and Holly Conti are the co-partners of Full Swing PR, an agency that offers senior-level PR services to help amplify clients’ story or cause and takes pride in creating authentic, lasting relationships with clients. They discuss their unique partnership dynamics, their approach to quarterly planning and KPIs, and their philosophy on "practicing what you preach" in the agency world.

They also emphasize the importance of understanding client needs, demonstrating value, and the shift from focusing merely on publicity to generating tangible client pipelines.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Breaking the visionary and integrator partner mold.

• Making sure to walk the walk in your own business.

• How to make your business a ‘must-have’ 

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Breaking the Visionary-Integrator Mold

Caitlin started Full Swing solo, but always kept Holly in mind as the ideal partner for her business after they met working at an agency. It took some time, though, since Holly was first pregnant when Caitlin started the agency and then busy being a mom to a newborn. However, her involvement progressed, first as a moonlighter, then the agency’s first employee, and eventually becoming the co-pilot Caitlin had always envisioned.

Founder duos often get asked about who identifies as the “visionary” or the “integrator.” In their case, Caitlin and Holly both think big and get in the weeds. They take turns in both roles, which makes it complicated, but it works with a dose of brutally clear communication and mutual respect.

Why work like this? It all comes from their beginnings as working moms in the business. As they explain, they initially treated it like a job share tagging each other in and out in the early days so they could both keep the wheels turning — and the babies fed.

Partner Up or Burn Out

Some agency owners do prefer to fly solo, but for the ones stuck doing it all alone — losing sleep over payroll, client churn, or the next contract that might vaporize overnight — Caitlin and Holly are living proof that a solid partner is worth their weight in gold.

Having someone to say “we got this” when a contract gets pulled from underneath you is priceless. Sure, partnerships are basically work marriages (with all the ups and downs). But good ones make the tough days survivable — and the big wins that much sweeter.

Walk Your Talk or Get Called Out

Do you make sure your agency is practicing what you preach? Or are you one of the agencies that just “can’t find the time” to work on their own website or marketing?

Too many agencies hide behind ‘we’re too busy with client work’ while their own site looks like it was built in 1997 by a drunk intern.

In their specific case as a PR agency, Caitlin and Holly practice the tenacity they teach their clients to have. “PR is about tenacity. It’s not enough to do good work. People need to see you doing it.” Just like they tell clients to show up consistently, be visible, and ask for what they want. They make sure to do the same.

Furthermore, putting yourself in your clients’ shoes as small business owners will help you intimately understand the challenges they face and understand the investment they’re making on your agency and how much they’re betting on the results you can bring. For Caitlin, this means taking people “from publicity to pipeline,” because she understands as a small business owner how important it is to have four time the sales you need to meet your annual budget.

In other words, treat your own agency like your most important client — or watch it slowly bleed opportunities.

Quarterly Planning, KPIs, and the Secret Sauce

So much can change in just one year (as we all have seen with the last couple of years). In the six years they’ve been in business, Caitlin and Holly have been through a pandemic, an AI revolution, and the economy doing somersaults. At this point, planning once a year and forgetting about it seems like a rookie move.

They still set annual goals, of course. But quarterly check-ins are essential to running the day-to-day behind their million-dollar PR engine. Their leadership team meets every week to ensure that quarterly plan is still reality-proof.

Revenue is Cool, But Calls Are King

Although they do have a topline revenue goal and a profit margin goals for the agency, their north star isn’t revenue — it’s discovery calls.

After realizing there was much more to building a profitable business than hitting the $1 million mark, Caitlin and Holly have been focusing more on pipeline and conversion rates. They know that if they keep discovery calls flowing, the revenue follows.

Right now, if they book 10 calls with good fits, five become paying clients. That’s a predictable pipeline.

Pro tip: Track leading indicators religiously — site visits, key page hits, opt-ins, booked calls, and conversion rates at each step. If something’s off (like calls dropping off, or deals stalling), they fix that exact leak before it kills the next quarter.

So, if you’re still flying blind, eyeballing topline revenue in your QuickBooks and calling it planning —you’re normal… but you’re leaving money on the table.

How to Make PR (or Any Service) a Must-Have

In this economy, how to get clients to see your work more as a must-have than a “nice-to-have”?

In down markets, budgets get slashed — but essentials don’t. So how do you become an essential? You don’t chase anyone who’s just looking for a PR vanity headline. You focus on clients who want a pipeline, not just press.

If you’re having a hard time to get clients to see you as an essential, you may be talking to the wrong people. Think about your ideal clients. What do they believe? What are their challenges?

If you define your ideal client and start targeting them, you’ll attract people who truly see the value you can bring to their business.

Over-Communicate. Then Double It

Caitlin and Holly share their process openly with prospects. Step by step. No secrets.

Some agencies worry they’re giving away the farm. Newsflash: they’re not. Clients want to trust you know what you’re doing — but they don’t want to do it themselves. Everyone loves steak but no one wants to butcher a cow.

Their transparency means no confusion, no scope drama, and no “you didn’t say that” fights later. It’s all upfront.

And they even turned this transparency into a smart private podcast: “How to Hire a PR Agency” — a brilliant piece of sales enablement they send to prospects to handle all the FAQs before a call. That way, discovery calls stay focused where they should be: the client’s business.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever thought about niching down, then bailed because it sounded too painful? Or maybe you tried, but ditched it when things got awkward? Today’s guest proves why sticking it out is worth the initial pain — not just to find your niche, but to find the perfect business partner too.

Meet Daniel Moscovitch, founder of Flooring Pros Marketing, a digital marketing agency focused on helping established flooring businesses throughout the US & Canada cement their position as the best in their market. He started as a generalist - doing SEO for pretty much anyone with a website and a pulse. However, unsatisfied staying just another “me too” shop competing on price and freebies he doubled down on a single, very specific industry.

If you’re thinking “That sounds brutally hard…” you’re right. And that’s exactly why his story is worth paying attention to.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Moving beyond simple SEO to offer comprehensive solutions.

• How clarity helped him find perfect alignment with his second business partner.

• Leveraging AI for strategic decision-making and process improvement.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Picking a Hard Niche is One Thing. Surviving It is Another.

Daniel didn’t just decide to niche down overnight. He did what most agency owners do: listened to advice on the matter, got inspired, and then slammed into reality.

The first big obstacle he did not expect was letting go of “easy money” and legacy clients to go all-in on a focused market. He knew it was the right call but dropping old accounts and income streams wasn’t fun.

Next, it was building trust in a market that didn’t trust marketers.

Turns out, flooring companies aren’t like your typical trades. They’re often run more like retail stores than contractors. Multiple locations. Bigger payroll. Savvier buyers. And they’ve been burned by bad marketing agencies before.

So just ranking them on page one of Google was not enough. Daniel learned fast that his new niche didn’t just want leads they wanted the whole system: branding, follow-up, sales process, outreach, repeat business.

In other words: the actual solution not just SEO. Because the real lesson here is about getting under the hood of your client’s real pain points, not just selling your “service of the month.”

Authority is Earned One Small Win at a Time

If you’re wondering why Daniel didn’t quit (although he did consider it many times), it wasn’t because niching was easy.

He stuck with it because he saw the momentum stacking up:

• A podcast appearance got him in front of flooring pros.

• A trade show speaking gig landed him more eyes.

• He sponsored a Facebook group.

• He kept learning exactly what flooring clients actually needed and then built the solutions, piece by piece.

One client turned into two. Then five. Then fifteen.

Today Daniel’s agency is firmly planted as the go-to marketer for flooring pros. He now has the authority, pricing power, and clarity he didn’t have as a generalist.

Key Takeaway: Don’t Quit When it Gets Awkward

Daniel didn’t win because flooring was “easy money.” He won because he stuck with it long enough to know more about flooring marketing than any other agency out there.

Most agency owners quit when it gets awkward - or flip niches too fast.

Bottom line: the best niche isn’t the easiest — it’s the one you hang with long enough to become the undeniable authority.

Clarity First, Everything Else Second

When he started his SEO agency, Daniel was living in Tel Aviv, working at an SEO agency. Since not a lot of people knew about Search Engine Optimization there, it seemed like an opportunity to go on business on his own, which he did alongside another American friend who also wanted to start his own business.

That partnership worked fine for the first couple of years, until it didn’t. After Daniel moved back to the US, the relationship felt like playing Tug-of-War. They lived on different time zones, had competing interests and visions and the best call was for each to continue on their own path. It wasn’t easy. Daniel has spent the last two years picking up the pieces and setting a new vision for his business.

• Who are we?

• Who should we not serve?

• What kind of agency do we actually want to be?

That search for a new stage attracted a new partner — someone who brought the exact pieces Daniel needed, at a moment when he finally had the clarity that’s so hard (and so damn profitable) to get right.

Only after that did he attract a new partner - someone who brought missing business expertise and industry knowledge. That alignment supercharged sales and positioned them to charge more and work with better clients.

AI as an Unexpected Business Therapist

Daniel admits: he’s a strategist, not a “numbers guy.” But instead of hiring an expensive consultant, he leaned heavily on AI tools like ChatGPT to interrogate his processes, nail down his goals, and even fix onboarding gaps that caused early-client headaches.

Great owners use AI not to replace people, but to think better and move faster - especially when you can’t see your own blind spots.

Pro tip: Have AI interview you about your agency goals. It forces clarity you might avoid on your own.

Rebuild Processes Before You Scale

With ChatGPT as a voice he can bounce business ideas off of, Daniel has been working on developing clearer processes. While he used to shy away from these conversations, afraid to uncover huge flaws in the business, he now happily dives into deep strategy work to improve client communication and expectations.

For instance, the first 100 days with a new client can feel like a ghost town and that can spook even the best-fit clients. Daniel’s fix? Using AI and team workshops to tighten internal and external communication, so clients stay engaged while you work. This is crucial for avoiding churn and turning strategy into execution faster.

There’s No One-Size-Fits-All Path

Daniel’s advice for agency owners is to avoid comparing themselves to peers at all cost. Everyone is on their own path and success is better defined individually. Had he followed common advice, he would’ve never gotten into a second partnership, which has really helped the agency’s growth. Furthermore, his growth was slower by choice, but deeper because he focused on getting the right clients and the right team before chasing pure revenue.

As Jason says: “There’s no silver bullet - only silver pieces you combine into your own version of success.”

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