How does a print designer become the founder of a thriving strategic web agency? Spoiler: It wasn’t all smooth sailing. But this agency founder figured out how to stop being the bottleneck, leverage systems and AI, and make his agency way more profitable along the way. It all began by creating a digital brain for his agency.

In this episode, Shawn Johnston, owner of Forge and Smith, a Vancouver-based agency shares how he’s been building bespoke WordPress sites for 13+ years. He’ll share his story—and some seriously smart tips for agency owners looking to scale and create more freedom in their agency.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why documenting your processes is key to scaling

• How to use AI to build a “digital brain” for your agency

• How to step out of day-to-day work and empower your team

• Tips for focusing your team on high-value, strategic work

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Print Design to Web Agency Owner

Like a lot of us, Shawn didn’t set out to build an agency. He started as a print designer back in 1996, cranking out newspaper ads when CSS came on the scene, sparking heated debate at the office over whether it would change the internet or not.

Shawn got curious, taught himself to code, and started building sites on the side.

What started as a hobby turned into freelancing… and when the 2008 housing collapse hit, he went all in. He hustled hard on Craigslist, building $1,500 WordPress sites and quickly realizing he was making more than his day job.

This gave way to his first lesson in business: Hustle works early on, but you can’t scale without systems.

When He Knew It Was a “Real” Agency

Starting out, Shawn was able to handle all the WordPress development, design, and strategy by himself. By setting up some repeatable pieces, he was able to grow his client list, with some of them coming back for site support. As projects stacked up, however, he hit a wall: He couldn’t sell, deliver, and support all at once.

He decided his first hire would handle client support, so he could free up time for higher-value work. From there, he slowly backed himself out of development… then strategy… then design - replacing himself piece by piece.

Of course, this didn’t automatically erase all the agency’s problems. Initially, it only created a new set challenges. Adding new pieces to the team made their lack of documented processes very clear. For a while, the handoff confusion created meant everything continued to run through Shawn... The real issue was that there was too much knowledge trapped in his head.

Why Documented Processes Are the Key to Scaling

The obvious solution was to start documenting everything from UX components to strategy guides to build quality standards. From that point on, everyone knew who was responsible for what and at what point. The goal wasn’t to limit creativity but to empower the team to make smart decisions without running to Shawn for answers.

For Shawn, a focal point of this shift had to be underlying the agency’s why. Everyone on the team had to be very clear on: Why do we work with clients the way we do? Why are we doing things this way and not that way? Making sure everyone understood the overall goals would inform the decision-making, cultural aspects, and would help the team work cohesively.

Documented systems = freedom for you and clarity for your team. Win-win.

The Next Step: Creating a ‘Digital Brain’ for Your Team

Fast forward to today, and Shawn is using AI to level up even more.

He records and transcribes sales calls, discovery calls, and proposal work—then synthesizes it into a knowledge base his team can actually use. No more “Shawn said this one thing on a call” confusion mid-project. The team can look back at the records and apply direction to move forward without him.

We’ve talked about the next step with AI for agency owners: train an AI assistant on your agency’s entire knowledge base.

That means training it with everything you have in your knowledge bank, including:

• Past client insights

• Brand guidelines

• Design patterns

• Sales conversations

• Internal processes

Apply these practices ASAP so that your team can tap that knowledge instantly — without pinging you for answers. Think of it as your agency’s “digital brain” and the key to your freedom.

Why Low-Code + Prebuilt Systems Are Boosting Profits

One of Shawn’s smartest moves has been leaning hard into reusable systems and low-code tools.

He’s baked strategy into UX components, aligned dev processes with design frameworks, and streamlined builds so 80% of each site is repeatable. That frees the team to focus on the 20% that really matters—the strategic stuff that drives results (and justifies premium pricing).

More profit, faster delivery, better outcomes. Everybody wins.

Ready to Stop Being the Bottleneck in Your Agency?

If you’re tired of everything running through you and want your team making smart decisions without constant handholding. Then it’s time to plug into a community of agency owners who’ve figured this stuff out. Inside the Agency Mastery Mastermind, you’ll learn exactly how to:
-Document and systematize your agency’s IP
-Leverage AI to scale your team’s capabilities
-Increase profit margins with smarter processes
-Step fully into the owner seat—so you can lead, not grind

You don’t have to figure this out alone. Come hang out with the smartest agency owners scaling today.

Have you ever found yourself grinding endlessly, only to pause and think, “Is this really what I signed up for?” Maybe you started your business chasing freedom—only to end up feeling trapped by the very thing you built. It’s a common trap: the belief that working harder and enduring more pressure will eventually earn you the right to enjoy life after a big exit.

But as today’s guest discovered, you don’t need to wait 10 more years to start living. What you really need is a clearer why, a stronger structure, and the right people around you—people who understand your vision and support your growth.

Blake Denman is the president and founder of Rickety Roo, a remote agency specializing in SEO and paid search marketing. He’ll discuss his unconventional path into entrepreneurship, which was influenced by a personal injury, and the importance of designing your business and life around personal values, not just growth for growth’s sake. He also shares his time management strategies, how he uses AI for self-reflection, and his perspective on the mental load of entrepreneurship.

If you're an agency owner still doing everything—from ops to admin to taxes—you’ll relate to his story.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Strategic hires that might results in your identity crisis.

• Designing your life before it designs you.

• Time audits, energy filters & the “$5K task” rule.

• Figuring out what you actually want.

• Do you thrive in chaos? Manufacture some healthy pressure.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

The Moment that Forced Him to Slow Down

Blake didn’t set out to build an agency. Like a lot of agency owners, he fell into it. What started as freelancing to pay the bills while he finished school and pursued a different career path took a hard left turn—literally—when a serious bike accident landed him with a traumatic brain injury.

That moment forced Blake to slow down. Rebuild. Rethink.

And when he got back into client work, he realized something: just because you can do it all doesn’t mean you should.

Like many agency owners, he hit the familiar ceiling of capacity. So he started hiring. First contractors. Then a coach in 2019. That’s when the game really changed.

The Pivot Point: Strategic Hires (and the Identity Crisis That Follows)

When you’ve built your agency from the ground up, letting go isn’t just hard—it can mess with your head.

One of the pivots that really made a difference in Blake’s agency was the strategic hires that required him to let go of some areas of the business. For instance, when he finally handed over operations. “I was like that John Travolta meme—just looking around wondering what to do with myself.”

And that’s the truth no one talks about: letting go of operations isn’t just a tactical decision. It’s emotional. You’ve tied your identity to being the guy who does everything. And suddenly… you're not.

That shift sparked something deeper—what Blake calls “identity paralysis.” Not a crisis, but a freeze. A moment of, “If I’m not the operator, who am I now?”

Spoiler: that question is the start of real CEO-level growth.

Designing Your Life (Before It Designs You)

Most agency owners plan every quarter like a military op: KPIs, OKRs, revenue targets.

But how many plan their life that way?

Blake started mapping his ideal year: the trips, the purchases, the experiences. Then he calculated what income he actually needed to live that life.

We’re mostly led to believe those goals are too far away, but the first time he did this he was just $1,500/month off.

So many agency owners think they need to sell their business to finally live the life they want. But often, you don’t need to sell—you just need to restructure. What if the business could serve your life now instead of being the thing you have to escape?

Time Audits, Energy Filters & the “$5K Task” Rule

Most people say they value their time but let it slip through their fingers, which is why you need a time tracking method that works for you.

After trying a few, Blake got a framework from one of his early coaches. He categorizes his weekly tasks into four buckets: $5, $50, $500, and $5,000/hour value.

If you think your time is worth $5,000 but the time audit shows its mostly spent in the $5 or $50 buckets, congrats—you’ve just diagnosed why your growth is stuck and your energy’s tanked. To his surprise, this is what happened to Blake, who was spending way more time than he thought on the $5 and $50 columns.

You don’t scale by doing more. You scale by doing less of the wrong things.

What Do You Actually Want?

If your agency isn't giving you time, freedom, and joy… what the hell are you building it for?

Blake now runs his agency with zero calls on Mondays. Focus time is blocked. The calendar is color-coded. And most importantly, the business doesn’t need him 60 hours a week to grow. He also has the whole team on Brain.fm, a tool that uses science-backed audio to get you in the zone faster.

Some would call that a lifestyle business, but so what? Lifestyle business can be extremely profitable too. Why not build your business around what you like and don’t like? People who  struggle for 20 years to then sell their agency find that after all their work they have maybe ten years left to do the things they want to do.

Lessons for the Owner-Operator Ready to Evolve

If you’re reading this and feeling that twinge—that mix of burnout and “I want more” clarity—take these cues from Blake:

-Let go of the identity that your agency is you.
-Map your ideal life, then build your business to fund it.
-Hire for elevation, not just delegation.
-Your value isn’t in the tasks you do. It’s in the vision you hold.

From the Hustle Hamster Wheel to the Hedonic Treadmill

You want the 8-figure agency, right? So did Blake.

Until he realized that every time he hit a new goal, he’d feel good for a week… maybe five days. Then it was back to baseline. This is what’s called the Hedonic Treadmill—and agency owners live on it without realizing it.

We chase growth for growth’s sake. Or worse, for external validation—from peers, clients, even family.

Blake stopped to think about what was next after he had the money. Was he supposed to save it? Spend it? Did he even need that much? Define what you want your life to look like, and build your agency to support that. Don’t fall into the trap of chasing growth for validation more than for yourself.

If you let go of the idea of just hitting a number, surround yourself with the best team and clients, and set your priorities, you’ll be able to go after what you really want and live your best life.

Agency Owners & the Calm in the Chaos

Most agency owners have had the type of upbringing that’s them great under pressure. Calm in chaos. Laser-focused when everything’s on fire.

Of course, this can also become a trap if you start creating chaos just to feel normal. For instance, you may seek pressure to push you into action.

In his case, after years of needing the chaos, Blake turned to Claude to figure out a way to manufacture chaos without the disastrous consequences.

His AI coach creates a “painful penalty” for missing a goal. For instance, donate $1,000 to a political group you can’t stand if you miss a revenue target. That’ll light a fire.

Point is: for some people motivation isn’t just about dreaming big. If you need some added pressure to get working engineer consequences that make staying small more painful than pushing forward.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What really happens after you sell your agency? Brent Weaver, founder of UGURUS, knows firsthand — and it wasn’t the beach-and-cocktails story most agency owners imagine. In this second half of our conversation, Brent opens up about what really happens after you sell a business, why his team stuck around (when they had every reason to bolt), navigating the shift from entrepreneur to executive within a corporate machine. He also lays down a fresh perspective on where agencies are headed in the AI era — and why human advantage is still your biggest asset.

If you missed Part One, go back — it sets the emotional stage. This one dives into the raw aftermath.

Brent Weaver is a veteran digital agency founder who scaled UGURUS, sold it not once, but twice, and is now charting a new course inside a larger ecosystem. But behind the polished LinkedIn update is a journey filled with doubt, identity shifts, and deep loyalty to team and customers.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• What no one tells you about life after a big exit

• How Brent is using AI at scale inside E2M

• Why “human advantage” still wins in an AI-driven world

• The risk agencies face if they treat AI like a gimmick

• How to protect clients from the “accountability gap” AI creates

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

What Really Happens After the Deal Closes

When most agency owners fantasize about the big exit, they think freedom, cash, maybe a beach. But Brent paints a more nuanced picture:

“Selling is one of the most emotional business events you can go through. You feel every end of the spectrum — excitement, fear, uncertainty.”

And no, he didn’t tell the team beforehand because he wasn’t even sure himself. Looking back, he remembers asking himself: ‘Is this what I want? What’s going to happen to our customers? Our team?’

Spoiler: Nobody left. Because Brent didn’t cash out and disappear. He pushed hard to give people incentives to stay, rolled up his sleeves, and stayed to help 10x the next chapter.

Brent’s first acquisition with Cloudways was scrappy, entrepreneurial, and chaotic in a good way. But once DigitalOcean came into the picture everything changed. Some of the team joined a small company where they had a voice — then suddenly, it was all process, approvals, structure. And not everyone loves that.

More recently, after staying at the newly-acquired agency, Brent took a step back from a direct client-facing role. At the same time, he had a bigger role in the back office, so despite people not seeing him as much, they also knew he was still around working on the business.

To his knowledge, no one left because of the acquisition. The agency saw the normal amount of churn for the business but all clients and team members knew that Brent was trying to provide a sense of continuity after the sale.

Why the Learning Curve is Shorter — and Scarier

BBack when Brent started learning about the business, he had no idea how to write a proposal. He didn’t know anyone in the industry who could orient him, and ended up writing one in the only format he knew: a high school essay. It was bad. It talked about his interests, why he was trustworthy and why they should hire him.

Comparing that experience from the early 2000s to now, where kids are doing triple backflips on BMX bikes at age 12 because they can watch the trick 10 minutes after it’s invented on Instagram, the speed at which someone can learn anything now is incredible. And even overwhelming.

For agency owners, this means two things:

1. There’s never been a better time to start.

2. There’s never been a harder time to stand out.

AI, Meta, and the Future of Agencies

Ever since WordPress came out, everyone thought agencies were dead. To Brent, all it did was create more demand for people who knew how to use it.

Same with Meta’s new tools or any AI platform. Brent’s take is clear: The tools will make advertising more accessible. But that will actually increase demand for agencies who know how to go deeper.

In his view, there’s no world where his old restaurant client — who had a flip phone and a fifth-grade education — was ever going to run his own ads. He just wants to cook.

Translation: AI doesn’t replace relationships. It just raises the bar on what value you’re bringing to that relationship.

Infusing AI Horizontally Across a Business: Brent’s New Role at E2M

The reality is, even in the AI era people still crave trust and connection. Even in a world where AI is analyzing spreadsheets and diagnosing ad performance better than most marketers, the decision to act still comes down to a human being. “I look at a spreadsheet,” Jason says, “and I want to throw up. But I put it into AI, and suddenly I get clarity.” That’s the shift—AI can sift through the noise, but humans still make the call.

Business owners aren’t about to turn over their bank accounts to a voice assistant. There’s always going to be a place for a trusted advisor—someone who knows the game, who gets results, and who’s got skin in it with you. For agencies, that’s the edge. If you can interpret the data and turn it into action, you’re still wildly valuable.

This isn’t about one person nerding out on ChatGPT after hours. AI isn’t a tool for the top—it’s a mindset for the whole team. At E2M, he’s stepping into a leadership role to help infuse AI horizontally across the company. That means operations, creative, sales—everyone using AI not as a crutch, but as a co-pilot.

The agencies that survive the next wave will be the ones who stop treating AI like a gimmick and start treating it like a business partner. Brent’s advice: don’t wait. Start now, even if it’s nights and weekends. Fire yourself from every job you’re not elite at. And that now includes jobs that AI can do faster, better, and at scale. "Leverage these tools to gut-check your deliverables,” he says. “You owe it to your clients.”

The Legal Line and the Accountability Gap

But it’s not all upside. Brent drops a crucial warning about accountability. AI might be amazing at cranking out contracts, pitch decks, and even deal structures—but if it screws up, who takes the hit? If chat tells you to jump off a bridge, and it goes south, you’re not suing OpenAI,” Brent jokes. You’re just canceling your $20 subscription.

And that’s where real coaches, consultants, and experts still matter. There’s a human soul to leadership, and a layer of accountability AI can’t (and maybe shouldn’t) touch. The smart play? Start with AI to generate, then apply your judgment to validate.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How do you turn a $99 course, launched before it was even fully built, into a 7-figure coaching business? Today’s guest did just that. And he’s here to share why scrappier beats slick every time. If you’ve ever second-guessed launching messy, this episode will feel like validation.

Brent Weaver is on the show talking about his start with UGURUS, the valuable learning that can come from starting before everything’s in place, and why what came after selling his business wasn’t exactly what he had expected.

Today we kick off a two-parter with Brent Weaver, the founder of UGURUS, who went from building websites in high school to launching one of the most successful coaching programs for digital agency owners. If you've ever second-guessed your “build it as you go” approach — or wondered whether selling $99 courses online could ever turn into something real—this episode will feel like a shot of validation.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Launching and selling without a net.

• The real reason Brent Weaver sold UGURUS.

• The unexpected, gut-punch part of selling. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Building Something Before It’s Built

In 2012, Brent’s agency was building on a tool called Business Catalyst, which led to a side project called BC Gurus, a blog for Business Catalyst users that eventually turned into a full-fledged business. That little blog became a membership site where his team posted business content on how to grow a Business Catalyst agency and, after selling his agency, was the seed for what eventually became UGURUS, a platform offering training and coaching to help agency owners close more deals and scale their businesses.

Just as they were preparing to move forward with the site without the Business Catalyst element, as this tool had been discontinued, Brent found the name UGURUS had just gone up for auction. It all seemed serendipitous as they easily won this auction and the new stage of the business began.

Lessons in Launching (and Selling) Without a Net

Throughout their journey, Brent and his team learned something that every agency owner needs to hear: you don’t need everything figured out before you start. And in fact, if you try to, you’ll likely never launch at all.

The early success of their $200 self-paced course helped them build an audience. But it wasn’t until they started offering deeper, high-ticket coaching that things clicked into place. Selling a few $2,000 seats was way more scalable than chasing thousands of low-ticket customers.

They did all of this without the luxury of a huge marketing budget or slick automation. Just hustle, relationships, partnerships, and a whole lot of belief in what they were doing.

This is something Brent and Jason have both experienced. They agree it’s better to go out, execute with what you have, and get feedback, rather than waiting for the perfect moment.

Brent Weaver on Building, Selling, and What Came Next

Brent and his team didn't start with a fully polished product. In fact, when they first launched their flagship 10K Bootcamp, they spent all their time selling it before creating it. In their view, if they couldn't sell it, they wouldn’t build it. But they sold it. About 30 seats at $2,000 a pop.

Of course, it did help that they weren’t starting from scratch. They had a list of about 10,000 emails from their time running BC Gurus, which helped immensely. And then they had one week to create the first session.

What followed was a whirlwind of late nights and Adobe Connect calls (for those who remember what that was) as Brent stayed one step ahead of each week's live session. It was clunky. It was imperfect. But it worked.

Why? Because Brent was committed. He responded immediately to the slightest client dissatisfaction. He personally handled delivery. And he overdelivered wherever possible. That scrappy MVP became the foundation for a business that helped thousands of agencies get out of the feast-and-famine cycle.

This kind of growth doesn’t happen when you wait for the stars to align. It happens when you ship early, listen hard, and iterate fast.

The $22,850 Lead Magnet That Took 6 Minutes to Create

Let’s talk about lead magnets that actually convert. The first product Brent ever sold was a gloriously titled “the $22,850 Website Proposal.” That wasn’t a gimmick. It was a real client proposal that closed a big deal—with cross-sells, recurring revenue, and multi-location projects all baked in.

Instead of building something fancy, he stripped out client details, dropped it into a Google Doc, and gave it away. Six minutes of work. Hundreds of thousands of downloads. The lesson? Your most valuable assets are often sitting in a dusty folder, not in your imagination. Proof beats polish every time.

The Real Reason Brent Sold UGURUS

So why sell a successful business? For Brent, it wasn’t burnout—it was the pull toward a bigger vision. After buying out his co-founder and riding the COVID rollercoaster, things just weren’t lighting him up anymore. Then came Cloudways—and more importantly, a series of conversations with their CMO, Santi.

In a way, he was no longer getting what he wanted from the business, and the more he spoke with Santi, and saw what they were doing with their platform, the more he dreamed about turning that into an agency growth community. Hence, what started as co-branded webinars and strategy calls evolved into shared vision sessions. Eventually, Cloudways pitched an acquisition. The appeal? A chance to bring agency coaching to a massive platform with 13,000+ agency users. Brent saw an opportunity to merge purpose with scale and went all in.

When the Buyer Gets Bought

Here’s the plot twist: just ten months after the acquisition, Cloudways got acquired by DigitalOcean, and suddenly UGURUS was a small fish in a billion-dollar pond. DigitalOcean was focused on AI, GPUs, and hardcore infrastructure—not coaching communities. So eventually, Brent’s team and vision were sidelined.

He stayed on. He fought for his team. But like he says—when you sell, it’s no longer yours. And if the buyer shifts priorities, you’ve got to live with it. That’s the tradeoff.

Don't Sell Unless You Know What’s Next

The hard truth here is don’t sell unless you know what you’re waking up to the next day. Brent thought he had his next chapter lined up. He had a six-month transition plan. A roadmap. But then came the cultural disconnect. Engineering talk at happy hours. Roadmaps that had nothing to do with agency growth. The adventure he signed up for didn’t look like what it became.

That’s the gut-punch part of selling. You can have a clean exit and still feel like you lost something. That’s why clarity before the exit is non-negotiable.

Next Time on Part Two: What really happens after the exit? Brent pulls back the curtain on post-sale culture shock, why some big opportunities fizzled, and how his next move with E2M caught even him by surprise. You won’t want to miss this.

Want to Build an Exclusive, Scalable Agency That Clients Line Up For?

Our Agency Blueprint helps you identify growth bottlenecks, build community-driven strategies, and position your agency as a category of one.

What if one bad hire wrecked your agency? What if the red flag you're dismissing tanked your margins? Most agency owners learn these lessons the hard way. But you don’t have to.

In this episode, Collin Slattery shares the red flags, hiring mistakes, and leadership shifts that helped him build an agency that’s not just growing—but growing sane. He’s here to share stories that can help you shortcut the pain and build smarter, sooner. From pricing hesitations to over-hiring juniors to waiting too long to fire a bad hire, he brings great insights about what not to do—and what to fix fast. At the end of the day, the goal isn’t just growth—it’s sane growth.

Collin Slattery is the founder of Taikun Digital, an agency that primarily focuses on the e-commerce space, doing Facebook ads, Google ads, and creative landing pages for clients. He’ll share his scrappy beginnings, the mistakes that cost him (and taught him), and the non-negotiables he’s learned about red flags and respecting your own time as an agency owner. His strategy now is simple: only do the work that’s uniquely his. Delegate the rest. And when hiring, pay for people who love the stuff you hate.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to spot sales-process red flags before they cost you.

• Why hiring friends usually fails—and how to do it right if you must.

• What to do before a big client leaves—so you’re not scrambling.

• The hiring mindset that leads to faster, saner growth.Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Starting with $300 and a Canadian Pharmacy

Right out of high school—class of ’07—Collin started making money online during what he calls the "Wild West" days of digital marketing. Think bootleg Canadian pharmacies, early Google Ads, and cracked versions of Adobe software.

One of his first official clients was a skincare brand called Spa Technologies, which he charged $300 a month to handle “all the web stuff”—from email and SEO to advertising and site updates. He even landed a local government gig in New York early (back when procurement was a little less formal). It wasn’t glamorous, but it was enough to plant the seed for what would eventually become his agency.

Eventually, Collin took the boutique route. He leaned into complex client problems and bespoke solutions, found his zone of genius, and grew from there.

Hiring Red Flags During the Sales Process

One of the most expensive lessons agency owners learn, and one Collin has relearned, is ignoring red flags during the sales process.

It’s amazing how anyone can forget to trust their gut when they need the money, but Collin has learned this lesson by now. From clients with unreasonable expectations who ghost meetings to those who show up late or treat your time like it’s optional, he has learned to put a limit. Today, he waits five minutes—max—for a prospect to join a call. If they don’t show, he’s out. Because if someone doesn’t respect your time on the sales call, they’re definitely not going to respect your process, boundaries, or team later on.

The biggest red flag for Collin is clients who offload all responsibility. If they’re promising to be your “best client ever” or insisting they’ll deliver everything you need “right away,” it’s worth digging deeper. Of course, clients who are too involved can also be a problem. However, the agency can’t be more invested than they are in their own success.

To prevent this, establish a pricing structure where at least 50% of the project is paid upfront, with clear dates for the remaining payments.. This can help irresponsible clients get moving on what they’re supposed to deliver, although Jason shares a story about a client who paid 100% upfront (before kickoff!) but delayed the project by not providing what was promised.

That’s why process and payment timelines matter. If you don’t control scope and expectations from day one, you’ll pay for it in time, profit, and sanity.

When One Bad Hire Derails Everything

Collin’s been on both ends of the hiring spectrum—over-prioritizing skill and under-prioritizing culture fit… then swinging the other way and hiring people he liked without checking if they actually had the skills.

Spoiler: Neither approach worked.

On top of that, he’s been guilty of stubbornly keeping people too long, thinking he could “fix” them. However, he’s now confident that owners can usually know on Day 1 if they made the wrong hire. Week 1 if you're generous. People usually start with their best foot forward, so if that’s shaky, it’s a red flag.

The real game-changer was learning to trust his gut early and cut things off quickly—for everyone’s sake.

Hiring Friends? Set Very Clear Expectations

Should you hire friends or family? Most agency owners will say no—and Collin would’ve agreed… until one friend hire actually worked out.

There were many factors that contributed to this, including expectations, where the agency is at, and the person’s character.

The first time he hired his best friend, it was a disaster. The second time, it was a former mentee who had already sold his own agency, knew the ropes, and was a perfect culture fit. They were open, direct, and mutually respectful—and it worked.

The lesson? If you do go down the friend/family road, set clear expectations, give both parties an exit ramp, and value the friendship above the business if things go sideways.

The Secret to Real Growth: Do Less of What You Hate

According to Collin, delegation and self-awareness are the great drivers of his agency’s success. He focused on hiring people to do the things he was either bad at or dreaded doing—even if he was good at them, because chances are someone else loves the stuff you hate doing.

That mindset shift allowed Collin to get laser-focused on what he does best—sales, marketing, and solving complex “math problems” for e-commerce clients.

Now he wakes up looking forward to work instead of dreading it.

When a Big Client Bails, Your Margins Matter More Than Ever

Recently, Collin’s agency lost its biggest client temporarily due to the pressures of the new tariffs. Instead of panic, his response was grounded and strategic.

He’s built his agency to survive losses like this and encourages agency owners to do the same, by thinking about pricing, hiring, and not sabotaging your own sales engine. Thanks to this mindset, the agency had healthy profit margins baked in.

If losing one client sends you into a tailspin, you’re probably not charging enough. You need to build your business in a way that you can survive losses without cutting down. That’s not just about pricing—it’s about operating with margin as a mindset.

One of the biggest mistakes agency owners make is hitting pause on sales because things feel good. Collin’s advice is to always be selling. And if capacity is tight, don’t pause—raise your prices.

Pro tip: Implement a sliding scale strategy. Every few clients, bump your pricing and track retention. You might find that you’re working less for more.

Want to Grow Fast? Hire Ahead of the Demand

Let’s talk about one of the hardest lessons agency owners learn: hiring too late. Collin admitted he brought on clients he couldn’t serve well—and paid the price in churn and stress.

This year, he’s trying a different strategy by hiring ahead of the demand. And not just anyone—hire senior people. Yes, it’s a luxury. But it’s also how you buy back your time and protect your client relationships.

Junior hires sound good on paper—cheap, trainable, full of potential. But they require time and energy you may not have. As Collin explains, the real value of a senior hire is autonomy because they can own it from day one.

”At the end of the day, if you don’t build margin into your agency, one bad month can wipe you out.”

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is your agency falling behind in the AI revolution—while competitors pull ahead? If you’ve handed off AI adaptation to your team and progress still feels sluggish, you’re not alone.

The uncomfortable truth? Delegating AI could be the biggest threat to your agency’s future.

Today’s guest, Brandon Na, has seen firsthand how agencies rise—or fall—in the face of disruption. From early SEO days to the AI era, he’s learned what it really takes to lead through change. And it starts with not outsourcing the future.

Many employees feel more fear than excitement about AI—worried it could signal the end of their careers. Instead, agency owners should be very involved in this process and actively try to identify team members who are excited to learn about AI and already experiment with it on their own time. The agencies that will thrive aren't the ones that delegate AI innovation down the chain of command but the ones that build transformation strategies around those natural innovators.   

Brandon Na is the founder of Seattle Organic SEO, as well as a venture capital pro and acting CMO. His path into agency life started with a simple desire to never have to do cold sales. So instead, he hacked his way into visibility through SEO. This path took Brandon to South Korea, where he helped scale an education company by 1,400%. He eventually returned to the U.S., launched his agency, and dominated the search rankings in a matter of months—all from a handshake mentorship deal with a guy exiting the space.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How you can avoid losing your way after ‘making it’.

• Will SEO survive AI?

• Why you shouldn’t delegate AI adoption. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

From Amazon to Agency Life (And What Jeff Bezos Taught Him About Leadership)

Brandon started out working at future giants like Amazon and Expedia and could’ve had a very different career had he stayed. Working at tech giants like Amazon and Expedia might sound glamorous today—but back then, it wasn’t. Low pay, stock options that seemed worthless, and a corporate culture that left him unimpressed taught Brandon an early lesson: big titles don’t equal strong leadership.

From his experience with Bezos, he learned that big titles don’t always mean big character and that leadership—true leadership—isn't about prestige, but about clarity, adaptation, and purpose.

Next, Brandon had his first try at entrepreneurship with a real estate practice before he ever touched agency work. Knowing by experience that sales was just not for him, he wondered how to get people to find him, which naturally led him to find SEO.

In the early days of SEO, Brandon decided to master the craft before launching his agency. He took a few years to learn, test his skills, and leverage some contacts before starting his agency.

Why So Many Leaders Lose Their Drive After Hitting Big Milestones

Seeing how big CEOs started and how they’ve evolved, one wonders how they manage to turn it all around. How do they get to a point in their leadership where the stories go from being terrible at managing employees to making history? For Brandon, it’s about never getting too comfortable once they have the money.

These trailblazers who have managed to conquer the world will not just retire and live a quiet life, they’ll just choose other ways to create and make an impact. Many of them eventually move into venture capital or find other passions. It’s an advisable path for agency owners who end up selling their businesses, because otherwise they can end up losing their sense of purpose.

If you’re chasing the next milestone remember that if you don’t define your purpose beyond the hustle, the success will feel hollow.

Growth Comes from Pressure - So Turn It Up

Although living through the pressure of working in tech during those early years was not easy, Brandon now looks back and can see it with different eyes. As he has learned from his work as CMO: “If you’re stuck on a problem—make the problem bigger.” Because being too comfortable, you can lose your edge. It may take time, since with AI, market shifts, and internal team chaos pulling us in every direction, it's easy to lose clarity, but if you focus on finding that problem you’ll grow.

It can sound counterintuitive, but in his experience bigger problems force bigger focus, more urgency, and better thinking. It’s easy to spin your wheels when you’re “fine”—but when the pressure’s real, you find out what you’re made of.

Can SEO Still Win in an AI World?

When a friend of Brandon told him he barely used Google anymore, he assumed it was because as a computer engineer, he was just ahead of everyone else in these trends. However, just five weeks later he realized he also was now using AI. After years in SEO, even he finds himself turning to AI tools like ChatGPT instead of even opening Google.

So is Google still relevant, or has AI already taken the crown? The bottom line is the way people find information is changing. And that has massive implications for how your agency helps clients get found.

Whether you’re creating blog content, developing ad strategies, or running full-scale marketing campaigns—AI is in the mix now. Platforms like Gemini, Claude, Perplexity, and even custom-trained agents are already out in the wild. And they’re fast.

Ultimately, the game is changing fast, and agencies that aren’t adapting might already be falling behind.

If your agency is still running fully human-powered workflows while other teams are using agents to ideate, write, design, test, and iterate faster than you can blink, you’re already behind.

But don’t panic. The solution isn't panic—it’s leadership.

Don’t Delegate the Future—Own It

One of the biggest traps agency owners fall into is just telling their team to “Figure out how to use AI,” and walking away. The reality is your team may not be motivated to lean in. Many employees view AI as a threat to their job—not a tool to make them better.

Instead, try:

• Identifying the team members already experimenting with AI tools.

• Giving those people the mandate and the resources to go deeper.

• Investing in training and testing to see what works—and what doesn’t.

• And most importantly, lead the charge yourself.

The agencies that survive the next 3–5 years won’t just be the ones doing better creative—they’ll be the ones moving faster, thinking smarter, and leading with tech.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What if scaling your agency wasn’t about adding clients—but building a community that fuels growth from within? During Covid lockdowns, today’s featured guest felt the need to turn his clients into a community, hosting events where they could get to know each other and build relationships. To this day, it remains one of the best changes he’s introduced at his agency.

With a dedicated community, a focused niche, and a cap on the amount of clients the agency takes, he created a sense of exclusivity that turned his agency into a “category of one” business that continues to thrive. Join us as he unpacks how his agency journey began, how he accidentally ran into his exclusive niche, and the ways he found to turn clients into members.

Oli Luke is the founder of Orange & Gray, a hearing healthcare marketing agency that’s not just thriving—it’s become a “category of one.” He shares how going ultra-niche, building a true community, and capping client growth actually led to bigger success. His story offers agency owners a powerful blueprint for growth by focusing less on volume and more on depth.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The power of creating scarcity.

• Choosing community over clients.

• Why client selection will save you headaches.

• Using AI to have a bigger impact with clients. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Creating Category Leadership with Your Agency

Oli started in the marketing world as early as fifteen years old, running a “questionably illegal” business that relied on marketing savvy more than morals. That spirit of experimentation, however, continued to evolve into something far more focused and in 2017 he launched a niche agency focused solely on hearing healthcare.

Like many agency owners, Oli knows the pain of being a generalist—serving anyone and everyone just to keep the lights on. But once he committed to a hyper-niche model, everything changed.

“We help a very specific type of business,” he explained. “There’s only about 2,000 potential clients in the world for us. So we’re not looking for quantity—we’re looking for quality.” According to Oli, once you’re playing in such a specific arena, you’re playing against maybe three competitors, which helps you become very good at that sweet spot.

By focusing on a tight, underserved market, Oli’s agency was able to create a “category of one” positioning. It wasn’t just another agency—they were the agency for hearing healthcare and that kind of positioning is gold.

The Power of Capping Growth and Creating Scarcity

Here’s something you don’t hear every day: Oli has no plans to scale his agency to the moon. In fact, he’s capping it at 100 clients. “We don’t want more. We want depth of relationship,” he said.

This kind of intentional limitation creates natural scarcity and urgency and real, earned exclusivity. Prospects know there’s a limit, so they know if they leave coming back will mean paying significantly more.

It’s a model Seth Godin once praised: deep focus, selective intake, and high trust. Oli’s clients know they’re one of the few, which raises the bar for everyone—team, clients, and prospects.

Community Over Clients: How COVID Changed Everything

Oli’s most unexpected move—and perhaps his most impactful—came during COVID when, like many agency owners, he had to rethink everything. Prior to that, he ran a very traditional agency, with one-to-one relationships with clients that mostly didn’t know each other. This all changed during COVID, when amid the shutdowns and uncertainty, Oli’s team started hosting weekly “campfire chats” to bring them together. That simple shift sparked a powerful transformation.

“We almost pivoted from being just a marketing agency and to being a communications company,” he said. By bringing clients together, the bonds formed turned into something more powerful than any campaign.

That organic community—born out of crisis—evolved into something deeper. Today, Oli’s agency doesn’t just have clients; they have members. And the community has only grown since the days of the campfire chats.

For him, there’s nothing more powerful than getting people together, especially in this new AI era where human connection will become increasingly rarer and more important.

There are monthly calls, print newsletters, annual events, and even an Austin Powers-themed meetup in London for their U.S. clients.

The community is more than a retention tool—it’s a moat. Members feel like they’re part of something elite, something valuable. It’s not just about services; it’s about belonging.

Why Client Selection Matters

As established, if you’re running an agency and not building a community of your clients, you’re missing one of the biggest strategic advantages available today. Yet, it may lead to competition – some of those clients won’t want to be in the same room as their competitor.

That’s why your client selection matters. You can’t afford to bring in clients who don’t align with your values, even when you’re in startup mode and tempted to say yes to everyone.

Learning this will take some time, but it’ll always be worth it because, more than just executing for them, you’re making them part of something bigger—giving them access to relationships, tools, and strategies that help them grow. And that, right there, is what makes the difference.

Finding a Niche... by Accident

Like many agency owners, Oli didn’t start with a clear niche. In fact, his entrance into the hearing care industry in the U.S. was totally accidental—through a client speaking engagement in Houston.

Back then, he had a small marketing company in the UK and a client who was doing work as a speaker in the US hearing care industry and invited him to one of his events. There, Oli shared some ideas with the audience. Just tips that seemed obvious to him in the marketing industry but were eye-opening to his listeners in the hearing care industry. He was asked to help some in that audience implement these ideas and, before he knew it, he had found a niche.

When the Market Shifts, Community Wins

It’s easy to panic when markets get weird. And let’s face it—we’re in a weird season right now. But the truth is, these “down” times are often where the biggest opportunities lie.

Remember 2008? 2000? COVID? Each one of those eras had agency owners panicking—and also created massive opportunities for those willing to adapt. When your competitors pull back, you lean in.

And it’s not just theory. Community-first strategies during downturns can redefine your agency. They create stickiness, loyalty, and value beyond deliverables. People remember who helped them weather the storm—and they stick around.

This is especially true for agencies that have found their ideal niche and have therefore found a way to be of significantly more value than just the doing. These agencies are in a position to lead their clients through these changes and provided much needed leadership.

The AI Evolution: Smaller Teams, Bigger Impact

There’s a lot of noise about AI replacing agencies. But let’s get real: Agencies aren’t going away. They’re just changing.

At the end of the day, agencies are the middle man between someone having a problem and arriving at the solution. People will still need help, they’ll just be able to do more with less people. What used to take 100 employees might now take 30—or even 10. The work doesn’t vanish—it evolves. It becomes smarter, faster, and more strategic. You still need strategy. You still need people making decisions. But with AI, your execution becomes more powerful.

And your clients know this. They’re not oblivious. Bigger brands are already coming to agencies saying, “We want the same output with fewer people—powered by AI.” If you’re not ready to answer that call, you’ll get left behind.

That’s why understanding AI—and being able to communicate your expertise in it—is going to be a game-changer.

Supercharged Workflows with AI Agents

One of the ways agencies should start leveraging AI is by creating their own internal AI agent using ChatGPT. For instance, you can use it to train that agent with:

• Case studies

• Client challenges

• CRM data

• Brand voice

Once you do that, share it with your team so they can start using it to write a blog post, a LinkedIn update, or any kind of content—and it generates something better than most humans would.

This is where the future’s headed. Not to replace humans—but to empower your team with incredible leverage. You’re not building a bot to do your job—you’re building a smarter team that gets more done.

One More Tip: Start a Podcast

Even with all his experience and success in choosing a niche, creating community, and using AI, Oli maintains that starting a weekly podcast was the best move he ever made for the business. It drove client attraction, retention, education, and brand recognition. And with AI, it’s never been easier to create high-quality content consistently.

If you’re not creating content—especially in podcast form—it’s time to rethink your strategy.

Want to Build an Exclusive, Scalable Agency That Clients Line Up For?

Our Agency Blueprint helps you identify growth bottlenecks, build community-driven strategies, and position your agency as a category of one.

If you’re the visionary still stuck doing the work, you’re not scaling—you’re surviving. Joaby Parker knows that loop well. From launching his agency straight out of college to nearly burning out and walking away, his story is a masterclass in doing too much, too long.
In this episode, you’ll hear how Joaby broke free from the grind, stopped bottlenecking his team, and built a business that scales without him.

He shares his journey from founding his first agency right out of college to walking away and returning to agency life with a new approach and mindset. He reveals what caused his early plateau, why he left to work client-side, and how returning to the agency world taught him how to lead, grow, and eventually let go of the creative and account management roles that were holding him back.

Joaby Parker is the founder and CEO of Cover 3 Growth Partners, a strategy-first agency based in Logan, Utah, focused on food and CPG brands. With a background in creative marketing and brand development, Joaby’s approach combines practical business strategy with creative execution.

He discusses how his passion for marketing and working closely with various agencies inspired him to start his own and reflects on the challenges of the early years, the gradual momentum they built, and how he learned that building a successful agency isn’t about doing more. It’s about doing less of the wrong things—and putting the right people, values, and systems in place so you can grow without burning out.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The turning point that made him leave his first agency and come back stronger.

• How his mindset around delegation and trust evolved.

• Why being a visionary means you’re probably a bad manager—and that’s okay.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Why Joaby Chose the Agency Path: Early Missteps & Major Momentum

Joaby had a purposeful entry into the agency space, after developing a passion for marketing working with several agencies on the client side at Health & Fitness. He had the opportunity to work hand in hand with many agencies and knew he would someday want to run one himself. After a few years of learning experience, he and his partner made the jump to start their own agency.

Being quite young, their first few years with the agency were marked by a lack of direction. Their first big turning point came after securing a contact with Chemdry that led to a complete rebrand of this company. Soon after, when HomeDepot acquired the carpet cleaning business, Joaby and his partner had the opportunity to assist in this transition period, helping all Chemdry franchisees take advantage of this new HomeDepot partnership.

This is really when the business took off and Joaby and his partner started to deal with other aspects of scaling.

The Breaking Point That Made Him Go Back to His Roots

Growth flatlined. Burnout crept in. Joaby’s agency hit the ceiling—and he couldn’t figure out why. Turns out, it wasn’t a marketing problem. It was a management problem.

Initially, Joaby attributed this stagnation to geography—living in a small town seemed to be limiting their growth potential, especially during a time when digital outreach was much more challenging than it is today.

Around this same time, an existing client presented Joaby with an opportunity to join their internal team. It was a great opportunity and a needed break from the agency life so he accepted, after securing another partner that could take over his contributions at the agency. It felt like going back to basics for him and gave him the time and space to think about what went wrong at that agency.

Looking back, he sees the reason for that first agency’s plateau was a lack of processes. While referrals from existing clients provided a steady stream of work, they were insufficient for sustained growth, which ultimately led to a plateau in growth. Ultimately, they struggled to find opportunities to get in front of people to do more work.

This scenario is all too familiar for agency owners. They typically reach a breaking point where their small founding teams can no longer handle the client load. The natural response is to hire more staff, which increases revenue but often decreases profit margins—leaving owners feeling trapped and pressured. The key differentiator between agencies that remain stuck and those that break through to the next level is making the strategic decision to raise prices rather than simply adding more bodies to the team.

You Don’t Need to Do It All—You Need the Right People

Looking back, Joaby now realizes he could have pushed the agency to that next stage of growth, but at the time, the pressure felt overwhelming. He still wasn’t good at running an agency, just good at working in one, and although it seemed like the business was evolving, the reality was that Joaby had more costs than ever and was working more hours than he ever had before. At that moment, the opportunity to go back to work on the client side seemed like an escape.

Joaby admits that, for most of his career, he was a bad business manager. If you're reading this as a visionary-minded agency owner—which many are—you might recognize yourself in his story. Rather than forcing yourself into an ill-fitting management role, the solution is to build a team that amplifies your natural strengths. This means hiring self-managing professionals or dedicated operations managers who can handle the day-to-day business mechanics, freeing you to focus your energy where it creates the most impact.

The common objection to this approach is cost: "I can't afford to hire that level of talent."If this is your case, then the easiest solution will always be to raise your prices. How to justify that raise? Narrow your focus. When you become the go-to expert for a particular niche, you'll discover clients who are willing to pay for your true value rather than treating your services as a commodity.

Stop Running the Mouse—Start Leading the Team

These days, Joaby’s creative involvement is way down from what it used to be. For many years, most of the agency’s creative work still needed his approval in some way or another.

However, at one point he and his partner realized that, whenever he wasn’t stuck doing the creative work the agency grew and once he did go back to it, the agency stagnated. Agency growth is often limited by the founder, not the market, not the clients, and not even the team. When he focused on building and leading—growth resumed. If you’re still running the mouse, reviewing every piece of creative, or handling every big client call, you’re not leading—you’re doing. And that’s the bottleneck. It took Joaby some time to learn this. In fact, other than overseeing creative, he was also main account manager, where he didn’t do the best job, since he couldn’t fully focus on that area.

In the end, client complaints about lack of focus helped Joaby recognize that it was time to hire account managers and start delegating. Scaling an agency isn’t about doing more—it’s about doing less yourself. By embracing your role as a leader, not a doer, hiring smarter, and building a team around your vision, you create the space for sustainable growth. Whether you're stuck in the grind or unsure how to let go, the answer isn't working harder—it's building better.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.