Are you thinking about expanding your agency through acquisitions? Buying another firm can be one of the fastest ways to scale, but only if you choose the right partners and nail the cultural fit. Otherwise, growth can quickly turn into chaos.

Today’s featured guest has been through five acquisitions, each one teaching her a different (and sometimes painful) lesson about what truly makes a merger succeed. In this episode, she opens up about her biggest acquisition missteps, the cultural mismatches that nearly derailed integrations, forecasting errors she didn’t see coming, and the identity challenges that arise when two teams collide.

Kimberly Eberl is the Founder and CEO of The Motion Agency, a full service marketing and communications shop with offices in Chicago, Cincinnati, and Nashville. While the agency offers everything from creative to content, it is unusually strong in public relations with roughly 20 PR pros on staff.

Kimberly has completed five acquisitions, navigated the cultural and financial highs and lows of M&A, and grown Motion into one of the most respected independent agencies in the Chicago market.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• When acquisitions help agencies scale—and when they backfire.

• Lessons learned from five agency acquisitions.

• Why agency owners often misjudge valuation and earnouts.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Fired Account Director to Agency Founder

Kimberly jokes that she is one of those founders who got fired into entrepreneurship. At her previous agency, the account director role was undefined and impossible to succeed in. The revolving door should have been a clue. She lasted a year before being let go and scrambling to figure out her next move.

With no grand plan, she fell into freelancing in 2006. The economy was healthy. The demand came fast. And pretty quickly she reached that moment every accidental agency owner hits. Either say no to work or hire help. She chose to hire.

That early decision set the tone for the next decade. Instead of trying to do it all herself, she leaned into building a team and letting the business grow past her personal capacity.

Outgrowing a Single-Service Model: Moving Beyond One Specialty

Kimberly started as a PR pro. That focus worked for a while, but eventually she noticed how much money she was leaving on the table. Clients wanted websites, creative, content, and she was constantly referring the work away.

The big shift happened when she decided to expand beyond PR and bring more capabilities in-house. This meant hiring outside her comfort zone and learning how to oversee work she could not personally do. That decision opened the door to real growth.

Many agency owners get stuck right there. They stay in their one specialty because it is safe. Kimberly pushed through that discomfort and built a service mix clients actually wanted.

The Reality of Acquiring Another Agency: Lessons from 5 Acquisitions

Kimberly opted to add these new services through acquisitions. So far, she has completed five and every one had a different lesson.

Her first major acquisition was bold. She bought an agency twice the size of her own. Financially and emotionally, it was a lot. Looking back, she admits she may not do a deal that large again, especially in a specialty she did not personally understand. But she also learned that size does not determine complexity. A one-person agency with contractors had just as many integration headaches as a larger shop.

What mattered most was agency culture. Some deals looked perfect on paper but fell apart because the values, expectations, and behaviors did not align. One deal in particular was financially great and culturally awful. She kept one client from that acquisition. Another deal was financially terrible but culturally perfect. Years later, most of those staff members are still with her.

Her biggest warning: never ignore cultural red flags during the courting phase. Take time to hang out with the sellers, how they operate, and experience their company’s culture. Go to dinner, Travel together. You’ll notice small behaviors (snapping over minor problems, chronic lateness, lack of transparency) that won’t disappear after the contract is signed.

Valuation Mistakes That Kill Good Deals

Kimberly also dove into how she approaches valuations and why so many sellers get this part wrong. She focuses on future performance, realistic forecasts, and removing costs that will not continue after the sale. She also pushes back on inflated projections. If an owner claims revenue will double, the earnout should reflect that. Big promises are fine, but they should come with big accountability.

One agency she walked away from wanted a valuation equal to twice their gross revenue. They were using cash-based accounting and ignoring profitability. It was an immediate red flag. Kimberly’s advice to owners is simple. Build a business that is sellable even if you never plan to sell. Get your financials clean. Use accrual accounting. And be realistic about your numbers.

Leadership, Loyalty, and the Hardest Skill — Letting Go

As the agency scaled, leadership challenges became just as complex as financial ones. Kimberly admits she is confused about why she is the largest woman-owned agency in Chicago at only seventy people. She is proud of the title, but she wonders why more women are not reaching similar scale.

There are no differences in capability, but many female founders still hit a ceiling often tied to loyalty, delegation, or difficulty letting people go. Some owners, especially women, treat their team like family and struggle to make hard decisions around performance. She admitted she has been loyal to a fault at times and is working on finding a healthy balance.

Agencies function more like all star sports teams. The roster changes every year. People get promoted, moved, or sometimes released. That does not mean you failed. It means you are adapting so the team as a whole can win.

Kimberly is even working on building hobbies outside her agency because she noticed how much of her identity was tied to work. It is a relatable struggle for founders who have poured years into their companies.

AI Changes the Work, Not the Need for Agencies

Let’s be clear, agencies are not going away because of AI. Kimberly certainly doesn’t believe that. She treats AI like an intern. Helpful. Fast. But still needing quality control, creativity, and leadership. Clients still want real relationships. They want someone who understands context and nuance.

Agencies serving tech-savvy individuals will feel churn from AI, but agencies serving plumbers, service-based businesses, and non marketers will be fine. These clients want to stay in their lane and hire experts for everything else.

Marketing evolves, but agencies survive because the business model adapts.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What do you do when a business partnership fails? Do you try to engineer the perfect agreement so the exit is clean, or focus on alignment long before anyone signs anything? The truth is, most agency partnerships fail because owners rush into them without slowing down to see the cracks. Preparing for the worst is not pessimistic. It is how you protect the business you are trying to build.

Today’s featured guest has gone through failed starts, broken agency partnerships, and overcommitting his time as the owner for fear of losing opportunities. He’ll unpack 25 years of wins, mistakes, and hard earned clarity, from building his agency and how the biggest breakthroughs came from leadership shifts rather than marketing tactics.

Andy Crestodina is the co founder of Orbit Media, a Chicago based web development and optimization agency approaching its 25th year in business. Orbit has grown to a team of fifty five and more than eight million in annual revenue. Andy is also one of the most respected voices in content marketing, with millions of readers, hundreds of speaking engagements each year, and a reputation for teaching real strategy instead of recycled tactics.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Slow, organic for consistent agency growth.

• What a failed agency partnership can cost you.

• The hire that gives an agency founder their time back.

• Learning when “yes” becomes the problem.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How Slow, Organic Growth Built a 25-Year Agency

Andy was working as an IT recruiter in the nineties and found himself bored at his day job. He didn’t get to build anything in that position and he had a lot of ideation urging him to do something else. Luckily, the internet offered him that chance.

He could build a website and channel his creative energy through that side project. But could he do it full time? He had no resume and no portfolio to present to a potential employer. He realized it was easier to get a client to take a chance on him than it was to convince an employer to hire him.

So he and a high school friend started building sites. The first partnership failed fast and then the second attempt grew slowly, quietly, and steadily for 25 years. The secret was not paid ads or cold outreach. It was content. Consistent publishing, useful insights, and a commitment to organic channels long before that became mainstream advice.

When Agency Partnerships Go Wrong and What It Really Costs

There are many stories of successful partnerships in the agency world, but overall the disaster stories are much more common. As Jason says, you either know the bad partner or you are the bad partner. Andy lived through one of the toughest versions of that story.

He had three partners for a while. One of them ran an unprofitable department. Responsibilities were unclear. Values were not aligned. And when it came time to clean up the mess, a poorly written shareholder agreement became a bigger problem than the partner himself.

Andy had to mortgage his home and personally lend the company money to buy out the partner. The agreement used the wrong valuation formula. The partner dragged his feet and what should have been a difficult but clean process turned into a long, expensive, emotionally draining separation.

Looking back, Andy says something most founders never admit. A handshake would have been better than the shareholder agreement they had.

The real mistakes came earlier: saying yes to a partner who did not share the same values, not slowing down long enough to evaluate the deal, and being hungry for growth and ignoring misalignment.

The Leadership Hire That Gave the Founder His Time Back

Around this time of misalignment between partners was when a long time client turned management consultant stepped in. He saw tension inside the partner group, so he moved to do a 360 review and surfaced the problems that no one wanted to say out loud. Andy was quick to spot that he would be a great addition to the agency, and so eventually, he became the CEO.

That single hire changed everything.

Andy was doing all the sales and marketing. Meetings all day. Proposals all night. Burning energy on tasks someone else should have owned years earlier.

Once his new CEO came on board, he built systems, built a sales process, hired strategists to handle qualification and scoping. Suddenly Andy had 20 hours a week of his life back.

He poured that time into content and went right into work. He doubled publishing frequency, launched a conference, wrote a book, held monthly live events, shot videos. The brand exploded. Their reach multiplied. The inbound engine went from effective to unstoppable.

This is the founder shift so many agency owners avoid. Letting go. Delegating the work that drains you. Investing your best energy into the work that grows the company, not the work that maintains it.

Saying Yes, Saying No, and Protecting Your Energy

Andy admits he still overcommits. He still says yes to speaking engagements because he loves the stage and it generates leads, even though the constant travel wears him down.

This is something many agency owners have to face. You may want the brand, speaking gigs and reach. But you also want to protect your energy so you do not turn into the hero who disappoints people when they finally meet you.

At some point, you have to choose where your yes goes. Andy chose articles, newsletters, LinkedIn, webinars, a conference, and in person events. He let go of podcasting. He narrowed his focus so he could go deeper. That discipline, more than any tactic, is what keeps his inbound engine healthy 25 years later.

The Tension Between Culture and Profit

How do you balance loyalty to your team with the need for profit and EBITDA?

Andy is still trying to figure this out. His team has an average tenure of eight years. Some team members have been there twenty. Andy cares deeply about them and their families. But agencies face moments when bonuses, salaries, utilization, and capacity collide. Where doing right by people and doing right for the business feel like competing priorities.

There is no perfect answer. But there is a direction. Take care of your people first. Trust them to help you solve the profit problems. Fix leaks. Raise rates. Tighten scope. Operate like owners. And when the agency wins, let your team win with you.

Culture breaks agencies faster than anything else. Profit can be fixed. Culture cannot be patched over.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What would you do if the merger you believed would change everything suddenly collapsed? Agency owners often dream of the big exit: the acquisition, the payday, the validation. But if you’ve been in this industry long enough, you know the story rarely goes as planned. Today’s guest lived through the dot-com boom, a merger gone sideways, a rare “un-merger,” and multiple reinventions across three decades.

Today’s featured guest is an agency owner who lived through the dot com boom, a merger gone sideways, an unmerger (a rare event), and multiple reinventions over three decades. He’ll talk about his journey and the lessons he’s gained in resilience, clarity, and what it means to build a business that lasts.

Tom Snyder is the founder and CEO of Trivera, a Milwaukee-based agency that originally launched in 1996 under the name Website Solutions. He got his start back when tables ruled the web, Netscape Navigator was leading the browser war, and you had to explain to clients what the internet even was.

Tom’s agency grew quickly through the dot com boom, became part of an early multi-agency rollup, unmerged after the dot com crash, and later rebuilt itself around strategic services, recurring revenue, and emerging technologies. Thirty years later, he has seen nearly every high and low this industry can deliver and has the scars and wisdom to match.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The roll up that seemed like a dream and the subsequent meltdown.

• The rare chance to unmerger.

• Learning to adapt to new technologies.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Early Days of the Web: A Front Row Seat to Digital History

Tom got into websites before most people even understood what a web browser was. He recalls visiting a friend in 1995 who showed him a website for a local jeweler. The fact that someone in Milwaukee could suddenly sell jewelry to anyone in the world blew his mind. That spark soon became Website Solutions, a one-man shop in his duplex basement that grew into a million-dollar agency within three years.

These early days were defined by scrappiness. There were no WordPress installs, no Mailchimp, no Shopify. Agencies wrote their own CMS platforms, email tools, and ecommerce systems.

For years, Trivera worked on project-based engagements. Sell a website. Build it. Launch it. Then hunt for the next one. It created a revenue roller coaster that made it hard to grow.

Then the breakthrough came when someone asked a simple question: Why are you not offering annual retained services?

Once they shifted the model, everything changed. Retainers gave them predictable cash flow, stability during downturns, and the ability to build deeper, longer-term partnerships.

Inside the Dot-Com Boom and the Rollup That Promised Millions

By the late nineties, agency rollups were happening everywhere. Big groups on the West Coast were buying smaller shops at high valuations, promising stock payouts that would multiply as the group grew. Tom’s agency was acquired by one of these rollups. The offer was attractive: $1 million in stock with the expectation that it could balloon into ten million within a couple of years.

For Tom, this was more than a payday. It felt like a way to secure better opportunities for his team. Higher salaries, better benefits, more resources. All the things agency owners often think a larger parent company can provide.

But as the ink dried on the deal, the dot com crash hit. Internal battles erupted among the agency owners inside the rollup. Some wanted to scale fast and sell. Others were emotionally attached to their agencies and resisted change. As the economy collapsed, so did the plan.

When an Agency Merger Falls Apart

Tom describes the internal environment as chaos. Agencies within the rollup started blaming one another for the downturn. Some owners viewed Tom’s Midwest operation as a weak link and argued it was a mistake to acquire them.

Then came the breaking point. At a Las Vegas meeting that was supposed to chart a path forward, Tom learned that he would lose control of his agency. His wife, who served as CFO, would be dismissed. His team would report to another agency owner.

This happened on September 10th.

The next morning, as they sat in their hotel room trying to process what to do, the news broke that planes had hit the World Trade Center. The world changed, and so did their priorities. In that moment of clarity, they made the decision to walk away and unmerge.

How a Rare Un-Merge Saved the Agency

Unmerging from an agency rollup almost never happens. But because the rollup was already fracturing, the leadership was surprisingly open to it. They returned most of the shares, let Tom keep a small portion, and released the original agency name. From there, Tom and his wife rebuilt everything from scratch under a new identity.

Although it felt like the right decision to make, they were still exiting what was still a financially stable operation to start from scratch, which was a scary but necessary step to take. They brainstormed names that felt Greek or Latin until they arrived at Trivera. The name itself was available only because the previous owner had just let the domain lapse. It felt like a small sign that starting over was the right move.

This reset allowed Tom to build the agency the right way. No irrational exuberance, burn rates, or pressure to sell. Just strong culture, smart financial discipline, and an eye on durable business fundamentals.

How Adapting to New Technology Helped Survive in Crisis

After the dot com crash, new technologies created fresh opportunities. SEO, email marketing, mobile, and social opened new revenue streams that helped Trivera rebound each time the economy dipped. Tom noticed a pattern. Every downturn was followed by a brand new marketing wave that rewarded the agencies willing to embrace it early.

One of the most pivotal moments came during the 2009 recession. The agency had lost clients, payroll was tight, and they needed a breakthrough. Everyone was asking about social media at the time, so Tom and his team built an event called Social Media University. They hustled for two months and ended up selling 400 tickets. The sales and sponsorship revenue kept their payroll alive and catapulted them into a new service category.

Events like this do more than create revenue. They cement authority, give an agency a story in the market, and in Tom’s case, it opened doors to new clients and positioned them for the next evolution of the agency.

Letting Go of Comparison to Stay Focused on the Journey

Despite the wins, Tom admits there were years he compared his agency to others and wondered why they scaled or sold faster, especially some that got the tools from his very social media event. It is easy to feel behind when you see competitors raising money, getting acquired, or shouting big revenue numbers.

However, there’s very little one can actually know about other agency’s purchase deals. These stories are incomplete. You never know what the real terms were. You never know the headaches behind the scenes. And you definitely never know if they actually took money home.

Success in the agency world is rarely a straight line. It is more often a messy, winding path filled with reinventions, hard conversations, and moments when you question everything. So agency owners struggling and watching others reach new milestones should remind themselves that longevity comes from resilience, not a perfect upward curve.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

As a user, do you still use search engines or have completely defaulted to AI? How will this shift reshape the agency world? How will ads work when people are only getting the one answer they need? Most agency owners are still treating SEO like it’s 2012 — optimizing keywords, buying backlinks, and praying to the Google gods. But search has already changed.

People are asking AI for answers, not Googling for links. And if you want your agency or your personal brand to stay visible in this new era, the rules are completely different. Today’s featured guest will unpack the shift from SEO to AEO and why most businesses are invisible to AI without even realizing it.

Kasim Aslam is one of the world’s leading voices on Answer Engine Optimization. He runs one of the largest AEO communities and leads a six person research team that has analyzed millions of AI citations to understand how large language models choose their sources.

He is also the author of The AEO Blueprint and the founder of multiple companies, including a staffing agency, a mastermind, and AEO.co. Kasim has spent the past year deep in the trenches studying how AI crawlers gather, filter, and prioritize information. When it comes to AEO, nobody has more real data.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• SEO is over. Understanding AEO.

• Why brands may get lost in LLMs.

• The quiet Google change that just changed everything in AI citations.

• The future of ads.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why SEO Is No Longer Enough: The Rise of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO)

To understand Answer Engine Optimization, we must first understand that, despite what some agencies may be saying, it is not the same as SEO. Traditional search engines prioritize links. That is why entire industries exist around buying them. In the world of LLMs, backlinks barely matter. The number one ranking factor for AI citations is schema markup. And only 12.4% of websites have clean, validated schema. In other words, nearly 90% of brands are invisible to AI crawlers, regardless of how strong their SEO is.

Schema isn’t just another optimization tactic. It is the visibility layer. It is the metadata that helps LLMs understand and categorize your content. If your schema is broken or missing, AI cannot reference you even if your content is excellent. This is the equivalent of having a beautiful storefront on a street no one can find.

The second key is social mentions. In the same way SEO relied on links, AEO relies on people talking about you. For instance, a TikTok comment from someone in the agency industry saying Jason Swenk is their go-to agency guy counts as an authority signal. LLMs weigh these human mentions heavily.

Finally, a lot of the nuances on AEO are changing every day, but Kasim has learned that the real key is building authority, long-form content. That along with clear schema and personal brand is the future of staying in the conversation.

Why Personal Authority Beats Brand Authority in AI Search

One of the biggest shifts Kasim highlights is that answer engines prefer individuals. A person can write a book, earn a PhD, share opinions, create content, develop mastery, and build authority in a way brands cannot. That means generalists are in trouble. If your expertise is scattered, AI won’t know how to classify you and won’t choose you as an authoritative answer. Meanwhile, someone who goes deep in a single topic becomes the preferred answer. It is a shift away from corporate brand authority and toward personal authority.

Authority is not spread across a company anymore. It sits with people. Agencies that hide behind a brand name will lose visibility. Personal brands that plant a flag will win.

For agency owners, this is huge. You do not need a bigger brand. You need clear expertise tied to a real person. This is exactly why Jason positions all the Agency Mastery content around him. Personalities thrive. Brands get lost.

Where LLMs Get Their Data (and Why That Just Changed Overnight)

Kasim’s research revealed that 21 percent of all AI citations once came from Reddit. YouTube followed at 18.8 percent. These platforms had deep context and raw human conversation, which LLMs love.

Then Google quietly changed everything.

Twenty two days before the interview, Google cut off 90% of the internet from AI crawlers by reducing search results from hundreds to ten. Because LLMs rely on deep search results (not the top ten), reducing the searchable depth limits the information AI can access - removing platforms like Reddit from the AI training pipeline. AI tools rely heavily on these deeper results for nuance. By limiting access, Google essentially removed Reddit and other community based sites from the AI food chain.

This change sent shockwaves through stock prices and visibility, and most people never noticed. Google is protecting the content needed to train AI because only two organizations truly own the global knowledge graph: Google and Amazon. OpenAI and the rest are crawling, not casing, the internet, which means they operate at a major disadvantage.

Google is playing statecraft. And according to Kasim, Google will win the AI race.

The Rise of Screenless Search and Voice-Driven Results

According to Kasim, we are quickly moving toward a screenless world. Eric Schmidt has said the screenless future is years away, not decades. And the younger generation is already there. Over 55 percent of people under 25 use voice instead of text. Voice queries require different markup, structure, and formatting, and only 0.3 percent of websites use voice schema.

Meanwhile, 65 percent of all searches end in zero clicks. People are asking, getting an answer, and moving on. That number does not even include the people who have stopped using search altogether and have already shifted to answer engines.

This means your future website is not for your audience. It is for AI. Kasim is rebuilding his personal site in Notion because he believes CSS-light, simple, stripped down sites will perform better for AI ingestion. We are entering a world where content is created for machines first and humans last.

How Google Gemini Is Rewriting the Future of Advertising

Here is a wild data point. When Kasim set up new Chromebooks for his kids, he discovered the default search engine was not Google. It was Gemini. Google owns Chrome. Google owns Chromebooks. Yet they replaced its primary revenue driver on its own device with a product that currently has no ads.

This tells you where the company is headed. They are rebuilding a new knowledge graph optimized for answer engines, while competitors still reply on the old search-oriented graph. And the future ad model will be nothing like what agencies grew up on.

If one answer becomes the default experience, where do ads go? How are they shown? What are users willing to tolerate? And will businesses have to give away deep content to earn visibility the same way early YouTubers and bloggers did?

These questions will reshape the entire lead generation ecosystem.

Data, Moats, and the K-Shaped Economy

The people who win in this new world are those who own data. Not tool access or workflows. Data. Custom GPTs, custom models, and proprietary knowledge bases become your moat.

We are entering a K-shaped economy. Twenty percent of people and businesses will become unstoppable because their productivity will outpace demand. Eighty percent will fall to zero. The middle disappears. That means agency owners must adapt, evolve, and lean into deep expertise.

Vibe coding (the rapid, exploratory use of AI tools) and no code platforms are accelerating this divide. Kasim’s team recreated a software that normally costs ten thousand a year in a weekend. Entire SaaS categories are about to be wiped out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Have you ever felt like enterprise clients were running your agency instead of the other way around? Buried in endless proposals no one reads, forced into rushed timelines, or watching your margins shrink every time a project drags out? Today’s featured guest opens up about how he broke out of that exhausting cycle. Instead of over-delivering just to keep big clients happy, and seeing little return, he made the bold decision to focus on smaller, more committed clients who were ultimately more profitable and easier to build long-term relationships with.

He’ll share what he learned about sustainable growth, including why productizing your services sounds great in theory but can actually become counterproductive when it only happens externally. He’ll also explain the sales shift that changed everything: offering a low-risk, “foot-in-the-door” engagement that qualifies prospects, builds trust, and creates a smooth path into deeper service offerings.

Charlie Clark is the founder of Minty Digital, a boutique SEO agency focused on travel and lifestyle brands that originally launched in Barcelona and now operates from London. In this conversation, he’ll break down the mindset, systems, and strategy needed to stop chasing validation from big brands and instead build a business where profitability, alignment, and respect come first.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why mid-market clients deliver higher profits than enterprise.

• How internal productization increases efficiency by 3X.

• How clear pricing transforms the sales cycle.

• How AI forced a new level of adaptability in SEO agencies.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Struggling Freelancer to Sustainable Agency Growth

After a short stint in an agency at age 22, Charlie tried to go solo before realizing he didn’t yet know how to grow a business. He assumed he could do it on his own and quickly learned he wasn’t ready yet. Instead of quitting, he got a job as a Digital Marketing Manager, where he could make mistakes, learn operations, and understand what actually works inside a business.

Moving to Barcelona created the perfect environment for momentum. His one-month stay turned into ten years after he landed several clients within weeks. His first retainer was €500 a month, which he laughs about now, but he admits it took years before he learned how to price correctly and move away from low-margin retainers.

Those early years were full of trial and error, but the big breakthrough was realizing that charging more wasn’t always the key to profit. Charging smarter was.

Real Profit Lives in the Middle, Not the Top

One of the strongest lessons Charlie learned was that bigger retainers did not equal bigger profit. Working with enterprise clients, he saw they could easily squeeze margins, the team would end up over-delivering, and on top of it all, payment terms were a nightmare. After years, he realized these clients often cost the agency money when the team over-delivered just to keep them happy.

By contrast, the clients who had been with him since the early days, the ones paying between three and six thousand per month, were the most profitable and the most loyal. They bought the same deliverables. They stayed for years. And they matched the agency’s internal processes beautifully.

Once he realized this, he moved to intentionally pursuing that sweet spot. Not the five figure monthly retainers or the cut rate ones. The predictable, operationally aligned middle where the team can deliver consistently and profitably. For Charlie, this changed everything from sales cycle speed to team alignment to lifetime value.

Internal Productization: The System that 3X Efficiency

Many agencies think productization means selling rigid packages that make you look less strategic. Charlie took the opposite approach. Internally, his team adopted highly productized systems, templates, and SOPs. They knew exactly what to do for a three thousand dollar client versus a six thousand dollar one, and how much effort each one required.

Externally, the offer still looked consultative and customized. Clients saw a broad range of what could be included, but the delivery stayed tight behind the scenes. This improved profitability, gave the team clarity, and dramatically sped up onboarding.

The biggest win? It eliminated the “start from scratch every time” problem that slows agencies down and kills margins.

How Clear Pricing Transforms the Sales Cycle

Before productization, Charlie would spend hours on proposals that often got ghosted. Once he added transparent pricing, clear expectations, and prequalification to the website, the right clients were self-selecting before the call even happened. By the time he spoke with them, they understood the price and the structure. Now he closes clients on the call or even through a single WhatsApp message.

This is the power of clarity. It shortens cycles, reduces friction, and saves enormous amounts of time for a lean team.

However, transparent pricing attracts budget mismatches, so Jason recommends removing pricing from agency’s websites and switching to triage calls and the Foot-In-The-Door model. At the end of the day, there are a thousand ways to create a better sales process. What matters is that it filters, qualifies, and positions you as the advisor.

Why a Paid Discovery Offer Builds Trust and Prevents Ghosting

Both Charlie and Jason agree that a small, paid upfront engagement solves the biggest challenge in agency sales. Trust.

SEO agencies in particular fight an uphill battle here. The barrier to entry is low. There are thousands of one-person shops. Many prospects have been burned before. A small paid engagement builds confidence, shows value quickly, and prevents ghosting.

The Foot-in-the-Door offer should be simple, done live with the client, and designed to build the relationship. Not overloaded with deliverables that overwhelm the client and make them feel uneducated. When done right, it leads naturally into a larger project and then a retainer.

Charlie’s Kickstart product functions the same way. For eight hundred dollars, clients get quick wins and clarity. It works because it gives prospects a safe way to test the relationship and because it positions the agency as a trusted advisor instead of a vendor chasing a proposal.

How AI Forced a New Level of Adaptability in SEO Agencies

Charlie admitted that two years ago he felt bored with SEO. Then AI exploded. Search interfaces changed. Clicks shifted. And suddenly the industry was moving faster than ever. For many agencies, this uncertainty created fear. For Charlie, it sparked energy. He leaned back in, started speaking at events, ran experiments on AI search, and brought a fresh curiosity back to himself and his team.

He described the past year as a sink-or-swim moment for agencies. The ones who coasted struggled. The ones who adapted thrived. Lean teams with solid systems could move faster and deliver more value. In his words, being nimble is now a competitive advantage.

Figuring out AI reignited his passion in the business but it was far too much to tackle alone. This is why agency owners should have a community to lean on to try to figure out changes in the industry. Your network will determine your speed of growth. Agency owners who surround themselves with peers sharing what works and what fails will survive the next wave of industry change. The ones who go alone will struggle.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success

Why do clients keep asking for deliverables they don’t actually need? How to get them to focus on the outcome instead of the task list? Every agency owner has had clients show up asking for a website, SEO, or a million social posts, when what they actually need is something much deeper: more leads, more profit, more time back, and a business they’re proud of again.

Today’s featured guest broke down how he built an 11-year-old shop that delivers exactly that. We dig into why small businesses really hire agencies, why “selling SEO” is a trap, and how simplifying complex work can make your agency more profitable, more trusted, and a hell of a lot easier to run.

Niecolas Biggi, Founder of The Gorilla Agency a full-service Oregon digital agency that helps small businesses achieve their marketing goals. After applying to 31 agencies and hearing absolutely nothing back, he decided if no one would hire him, he’d simply build the place he wished existed. Eleven years later, his agency helps small businesses fall in love with their companies again by delivering marketing that feels personal, purposeful, and rooted in truth—not hype.

In this interview, we’ll discuss:

• Why clients don’t want SEO and what small business are really buying.

• How radical simplicity makes agencies more profitable.

• Walking away from big clients to make your agency stronger.

• How AI is changing client expectations.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Clients Don’t Actually Want SEO (And What They’re Really Buying from Agencies)

Niecolas knows why his clients first reach out and he understands that, in reality, no one wants SEO. No one wants a website. No one wants a content calendar. What they want is for their phone to ring. They want predictable revenue and to stop feeling behind.

Basically, they want a business that finally looks and performs the way they imagined when they started it.

Hence, when Niecolas sits with a new client, he doesn’t take their request at face value. He keeps pulling the thread:

• Why do you want that?

• What are you really trying to fix?

• What’s happening behind the scenes that made you reach out today?

By the time he gets to the core problem, the tactical service almost never matches the thing they originally asked for. And that’s where trust is built—showing clients the real path to their desired outcome, not the task list they think they need.

As he puts it: Services are the toolkit. Outcomes are the reason you pick up the tools.

How Radical Simplicity Makes Agencies More Profitable and Improves Client Trust

During client meetings, Niecolas strives to strip away the complexity agencies tend to hide behind. Clients don’t want a masterclass in keyword density or a dissertation-length PDF they’ll never read. They want clarity.

To him, the best operators and the best salespeople think like teachers. Teachers take complicated ideas and make them accessible. They speak in a way a fifth grader can understand, because simplicity builds confidence, and confidence builds buy-in.

Inside his own agency, this shows up in the way he trains his team. No silos. No “not my job.” Everyone learns how every part of the system works, from content, SEO, design, dev, and strategy. That shared understanding creates respect, efficiency, and a culture where no one feels like they’re building in the dark.

Everyone in his team is taught that no one is above anyone and they’re all running the machine together. It’s a mindset that creates accountability among the team and helps the client understand exactly what they’re paying for.

Why Saying No to Big Clients Can Make Your Agency Stronger

Every agency owner has a moment where the “big” client forces them to rethink everything. For Niecolas, it was early on, when a client offered him more money than he even asked for ($10k a month) and three months later, he fired the client.

On paper, it was a dream account. In practice, it drained the team, misaligned with their process, and became the catalyst for rebuilding the agency from the ground up.

He spent two years refining every process—on-page and off-page SEO, content creation, design systems, communication workflows—all centered around one thing: making sure clients always know where their money is going and how it’s working.

Most agencies duct-tape their operations when things get messy instead of rebuilding the underlying, broken system. Niecolas rebuilt his foundation truly believing that all business owners need is for someone to create systems, truly listen to them, and help them articulate what they do for their clients.

Authenticity Converts (And Your Clients Need Your Help to Show It)

Niecolas’s wife unknowingly became the perfect case study for modern buyer behavior. Before choosing anything (restaurants, local services, events) she checks:

• Reviews

• Menus

• FAQs

• Photos

• Location

• Details

• User experience

• Credibility

That’s what most customers are doing, and the standard Niecolas sets for his clients. He wants to work with businesses that engage with clients and answer their questions, show their work with real photos, tell compelling stories, show proof, have a clean, intuitive website.

If it doesn’t pass what Niecolas calls “the wife test” — if a business doesn’t have clear answers, real photos, social proof, strong UX, and transparent information — it doesn’t ship.

And the same goes for exclusivity: Niecolas refuses to work with two companies in the same industry and service area. He wants to make one the best, not compete against himself for small wins.

How AI Is Changing Client Expectations and Why It Won’t Replace Agencies

Niecolas sees AI from both angles: the opportunity and the threat.

On one hand, AI makes clients think everything should be instant and $500. He’s already had clients send him AI-generated instructions like they’re firing off tasks to a robot. The danger isn’t AI itself but rather clients misunderstanding what real strategy, design, content, and user experience actually require.

But the other side is where he sees massive upside. AI removes the repetitive, thankless tasks that bog agencies down. It gives teams more room to think, solve, and create. It lets agencies deliver more value, not less, if they use it correctly.

AI doesn’t replace strategy and, more importantly, it doesn’t replace the human connection that actually closes deals.

Your network is your edge. Tools evolve but human trust, real expertise, and the ability to guide clients through complexity—that doesn’t.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you ever walk away from a “dream job” to start over from scratch? And if you’ve spent years building a career inside big brands, does it ever feel like it might be too late to launch your own agency? Most people talk about leaving their corporate job to chase something bigger. Very few actually do it, and even fewer jump without a parachute. Today’s featured guest is one of those rare ones. After nearly two decades leading social, content, and influencer teams for household brands, he walked away from his so called dream job to start his own shop without any safety net. Today, he calls himself a brand guy who happens to own an agency.

Eric Gray is the owner of Maverick Content Studio, a twelve person, social-first agency for Fortune 500 brands. After a long and successful career in corporate, where he spent eighteen years building high performing social and content teams for companies like Universal Parks & Resorts, Eric realized he did not want the future he saw in front of him. He left Universal with two months of savings and zero clients. His story is a blueprint for leaders wondering whether to leave corporate and build something of their own

Today his team works with brands like Advent Health, Winn-Dixie, and Travel + Leisure, helping them build audience, loyalty, and relevance through social-first content.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why target Fortune 500 brands?

• Why most agencies fail at building their own brand.

• Leaning on the power of personal brands.

• The hardest challenge of growing a young agency.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Walking Away from the Corporate Dream Job

At age forty-one, Eric had success on paper but a growing dissatisfaction in real life. He was leading big teams, holding a prestigious role, and doing work others envied. But he felt stuck inside a corporate machine that limited purpose and impact.

Although he’s thankful for the time he spent in that world, he didn’t believe he was living his full purpose inside an organization with lots of bureaucracy. With the support of his family and his pastor, Eric decided he didn’t want to get to his later years wishing he had taken more risks and took the jump to find out what could happen if he bet on himself.

Leaving was messy, scary, and absolutely not the playbook move. No freelancing ramp up. No contracted clients. It was no tidy transition. Yet he trusted that his experience and network would open the next chapter. Looking back, it did.

Why Target Fortune 500 Brands?

Most new agency founders start small. Eric went in the opposite direction. He targeted enterprise brands from day one because that is where his expertise lived. He had already built the blueprint inside Universal Parks & Resorts and believed he could help other brands treat social as more than an afterthought.

Eric knew many enterprise brands still underinvest in social. They focus on one big campaign or hero asset while ignoring the loyalty and connection that is built through consistent storytelling. His agency’s entire model revolves around what he calls the connection strategy. It is the belief that brands win when they create emotional relevance around the stories customers already care about.

Furthermore, large brands have large scopes, which also means you do not need forty clients. You just need the right five. That became a core advantage as they started growing.

Building the Early Client List Through Relationships

Eric did not cold call or blast DMs. He leaned into what he had spent years building. A strong network with strong relationships. Most of their early clients came from people who had worked with Eric before, or from friends of those people inside other major brands. Big companies talk to each other more than you think.

This doesn’t mean it was easy for them. They still have a lot of work to do to break through. But if you invest in your network before you need it, it becomes your biggest shortcut when you step into entrepreneurship.

Why Most Agencies Fail at Building Their Own Brand

But Eric points out that almost no agencies truly build their own brand. They hide behind their walls and hope referrals save them. Others talk about themselves, focusing mainly on their people, process, and portfolio. Meanwhile they tell clients to produce consistent content, invest in story, and build an audience.

When Eric launched Maverick, he refused to be another guy who leaves a corporate job and posts the generic LinkedIn announcement. He started building his personal brand alongside the agency’s brand from day one, and worked with his wife to make his agency look and feel much larger than its actual humble beginnings from their home offce. Perception matters if you want to enter rooms above your weight class.

The Power of a Personal Brand

Eric leaned into his background in sports radio and launched the Radical Content podcast. Within a few months he secured major guests like the former CMO of Chick-fil-A, the head of digital for NASCAR, and leaders from Crocs and other major brands. Those interviews became relationships. Those relationships became visibility. And that visibility opened doors for the agency.

The agency’s channels became secondary to Eric’s personal channels. Not because the company brand did not matter, but because personal brand builds trust faster than corporate messaging.

Systems, Volume, and Practicing What You Preach

Eric put serious resources into his content system. It started rough, with a single producer who did not fully work out. But it evolved into an eight person content ecosystem producing weekly episodes, daily clips, statics, and text posts.

He treats his own brand as the test kitchen for the strategies they deploy for clients. When you do that, the content feels authentic and the results are real. For him, if you stay in the background and don’t talk about who you are and what you do, you’re losing valuable opportunities to build your audience. You should be the guinea pig for everything you sell.

The Hardest Challenge of Growing a Young Agency

Two types of struggles hit new founders: agency struggles and the first time entrepreneur struggles.

1. On the agency side, Eric is unrelenting on talent. He will not hire someone just because they have experience. Their standards are high, which means the search takes longer. Orlando is growing but not a major market for high level social and content talent. They once received nine hundred applicants for a creative director role.

2. On the founder side, the hardest challenge is mental. Building a company that feeds twelve families is a heavy responsibility. The expectations you have for where you think you should be often do not match where you actually are. That gap can mess with your head.

Eric uses a list of personal non negotiables to stay mentally sharp: hard morning workouts, time with faith, reading goals daily, taking short breaks during the day, reviewing priorities, and going to bed on time. The last one is the hardest for him. But like most discipline problems, skipping the basics is usually what leads to feeling off.

Why Agency Entrepreneurship Requires a Long Game Mindset

For Eric, entrepreneurship is staring the hard thing in the face and moving forward anyway, which is where his non-negotiables come in. For his part, Jason has always treated entrepreneurship as a game. Sometimes you do everything right and still get hit with a bad roll of the dice. The goal is not perfection. It is persistence.

The memories you keep are rarely the easy seasons. They are the nights you and your team fought through the hard stuff. For this reason, his advice for agency owners is to have fun along the way. Don’t wait until your kids are grown or your agency is sold to live. Make the journey the part you enjoy.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What if growth doesn’t make things easier but actually just raises the stakes? Agency life looks glamorous from the outside, but the real growth usually starts in the messy middle. Today’s featured guest just wanted to build something of her own, but quickly learned that growth means the challenges get harder, instead of easier, and that your client and team retention will always be the best measures of success, since it means you’ve managed to build a business that has a real impact on clients and a culture people never want to leave.

She’ll share the pressure she felt as the agency got bigger, how she learned to celebrate the little wins, and how she built a culture that has truly worked as a strategic advantage.

Elyse Lupin is the president and founder of Elysium Marketing Group, a full-service agency specializing in food and franchise marketing. With more than a decade of running the business, she has scaled from a new mom charging a thousand bucks for her first client to leading a well known, franchise-focused marketing team recognized for expertise, execution, and a culture clients genuinely enjoy working with.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why growth gets harder as your agency scales.

• 2 metrics that actually predict agency success.

• How culture became her agency’s competitive advantage.

• The importance of letting go instead of babysitting tasks.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How Mentoring Can Be the Push You Need

Elyse started her agency during what most people would consider the absolute worst time to make a career change. She had a newborn, a mortgage, and a job that drained her every morning as she left her child in daycare. That friction reached a breaking point.

A mentor tossed out traditional job options, but Elyse surprised even herself when she said, “I just want to start my own thing.” Instead of talking her out of it, that mentor became her first client. It’s one of those decisions you look back on and realize how thin the line is between staying stuck and building something you love.

In the early days, she charged way too little, as nearly all agency owners do for those first engagements. But like she said, ignorance can be a gift. When you are early and scrappy, you move fast and celebrate every small win because you have no idea what’s coming next.

Why Growth Gets Harder, Not Easier

After eleven years, Elyse said she was shocked by how the difficulty of running an agency evolves. Things do get easier in some ways, but each stage comes with a new complexity level.

As the agency grew, so did the pressure to hire better people, keep up quality, retain clients, and juggle new demands that never existed in the early days. You go from hands-on fulfillment to team building to culture shaping to visionary leadership. Each level is a different skill set and none of it is simple.

Scaling is not a victory lap. It is a longer, more strategic version of the same game you started with: solve the next problem without losing momentum.

For Elyse, it’s all about stopping to celebrate the little wins and let herself enjoy watching her team crush new challenges.

2 Metrics That Predict Agency Success: Client and Team Retention

A lot of agency owners fall into the trap of measuring success by employee count or top line revenue. Elyse prefers to track retention. She considers it far more meaningful.

Clients only stick around if they are getting results and some of her clients have been with her agency since the beginning. Employee retention matters just as much, because no amount of growth means anything if the team delivering the work is burning out or bailing.

Even during COVID, when most of their food clients disappeared overnight, Elyse’s agency found a way to pivot into B2B, protect the team, and still grow. Not at the same pace, but still upward. That speaks to culture, resilience, and leadership.

In the end, what really matters is how happy you are in the business, whether or not your team is happy, and how profitable the business actually is. These are the things that will guarantee you stay in business and not start to resent it.

How Culture Becomes an Agency’s Competitive Advantage

Elyse’s agency has a spirit week. costume day. concert tshirt day. team jersey day. They joke about team members hearing her excitement through the office walls. But behind the fun is something serious. A happy team performs better, stays longer, and delivers higher quality work.

She also implemented rituals that reinforce positivity and growth. Every Friday on remote days, they kick off with Wins of the Week. Team members spotlight others who went above and beyond, which forces everyone to pause and recognize progress.

Then there is Elysium Advancement, a bi-weekly internal training where someone teaches a new AI tool or system. It keeps the whole agency sharp without overwhelming everyone with the nonstop flood of new tech.

Finding the Balance Between a Remote and In-Person Team

Elyse’s agency is in office Monday through Thursday and remote on Fridays. She believes their productivity is higher together, especially since half the business is design focused. Instead of 15 email threads, they solve problems in 30 second conversations.

Some teams thrive remote. Others thrive together. The important thing is knowing which one your agency needs. For them, an in-person environment helps them move faster and design better.

Letting Go: Building Leaders Instead of Babysitting Tasks

Most agency founders struggle with this. Elyse has built three strong department heads who now own their areas. Sure, she still has a hand in more than she probably should, but the structure is finally allowing her to think bigger instead of babysitting tasks.

She also knows what her team would tell her to stop doing. Being too loud in the office. Which, as problems go, is one of the funnier ones.

The Power of Picking a Niche

Years ago, Elyse heard this very podcast’s advice about niching down and resisted it. Like most agency owners, she felt her client base was too broad to narrow down.

After COVID, she finally made the leap and put a stake in the ground around franchise marketing. She got her Certified Franchise Executive credential, doubled down on franchising events, and made franchise marketing a core part of the brand.

And the decision paid off immediately. Franchise systems want a partner who understands their world, their FDDs, their local store marketing needs, and their complexity. Her agency became that partner. And with that clarity came authority, opportunity, and recognition.

Niching did not reduce her client pool. It strengthened her position and made her easier to hire.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

AI is changing the agency landscape faster than most owners can keep up with. Tools are popping up daily, clients are asking if rates should drop, and your team is either fired up or freaked out. Today’s featured guest talks about what it takes to build an agency that thrives in a world obsessed with shiny new tech, where the edge is not more tools. It is better leadership, human connection, and an incubator mindset that keeps them ahead without drowning in the noise.

Michael Davern is the CEO of Incept, an AI-enhanced, digital-first agency that has been around for a decade. Today, his agency blends automation, machine learning, and human-centered strategy to help enterprise clients grow with clarity and smart execution.

He is an early adopter who still believes the real edge is human connection and wants to encourage agency owners to really think about who should lead.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• AI-enhanced vs. AI-first: what actually creates agency value.

• Leading an agency through rapid AI change.

• Why human-first agencies win in the long run.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Evolving from a Specific Niche to a Full Service Agency

Before agency life, Michael spent years in corporate America and even longer in the music industry as an artist development rep. That career went up in flames when the label collapsed and no one got paid. After a brief return to corporate, he approached his now business partner with an idea to sell text message marketing, and suddenly he was an entrepreneur learning the agency game the hard way. Early on he chased small business clients with $49 starter packages and cheesy platinum tiers. Nobody wanted it. The market did not understand text marketing yet and the value was unclear.

Everything changed when an enterprise vendor in the Medicare insurance space let them into their workflow. Overnight texting became a revenue driver. That win opened the door to more enterprise relationships and pushed them to expand far beyond their original niche. What started as a simple vendor relationship ballooned into a full service digital agency. With time, growth came from necessity and opportunity, not a master plan. Michael admits they were often too early to the game, but that curiosity and experimentation kept them alive long enough to get good.

AI-Enhanced vs. AI-First: What Actually Creates Agency Value

Plenty of agencies slap “AI-first” on their website. Michael prefers to say “AI-enhanced” since “AI-first” implies handing the keys to robots or machines. That is not what his agency does.

Instead they use AI to enhance execution. They were early with automation, early with machine learning through the IBM Watson test program, and early with programmatic bidding when DSPs were still new. Those experiments shaped how they work today. Now, they use all this knowledge to save money, time, and drive better results for clients.

Clients are not paying for prompts or tools. AI lets the team save time, move faster, and stay in the lab testing new options without drowning in busywork. In Michael’s view, agencies are not competing on deliverables anymore. They are competing on thinking.

Navigating the AI Gold Rush Without Losing Your Mind

There is a tool for everything now and most of them promise the world and deliver nothing. Michael believes the real threat is not AI taking jobs. It is crappy tools cluttering decision making and distracting agency owners from what matters.

To keep his team sharp, he sets an AI budget for every employee at his agency. Everyone is encouraged to experiment, explore, and bring ideas back to the incubator. On Fridays, they compare notes. What worked. What flopped. What needs more testing. That culture of curiosity is what keeps them out in front rather than scrambling to catch up.

Leadership in the Age of Rapid Change

Nineteen months ago, Michael made a call. The company was going all in on AI enhancement. He sat the team down and said, “This is where we are heading.” If anyone was uncomfortable, they could talk privately or get help transitioning to a different job. Not one person left.

Clarity breeds confidence. When owners waffle or delay, their team feels it. When owners point the ship and support the crew, people dig in. Michael’s team embraced experimentation because they were given structure, purpose, and room to contribute.

And because of that leadership, his agency now runs on flat rate pricing tied to outcomes. They killed the old hourly model and their clients love them for it.

Human-First Agencies Always Win the Long Game

When was the last time you met in person with any of your top five clients? That’s the type of effort they’ll remember. Michael’s team meets every top client in person at least quarterly. Their average client lifetime is just under seven years, which is unheard of when the industry average is barely over a year. Real relationships create real retention. When you have shared a meal, a drink, and actual time together, you are not just a vendor. You are a partner. And partners do not get replaced by the next AI First agency trying to undercut your price.

The real advantage for your agency will be transparency and the ability to provide a personalized service. AI will give you more time to work on strategy, but you still have to offer the best client experience you can. Ultimately, clients are paying for more brain and less execution, “and doesn’t everyone want that?” Michael asks.

Choosing the Right Clients and Protecting Your Sanity

Another theme Michael returns to is knowing when to say no. Early on, every agency chases whales. The bigger the better. Then you land one and realize it might sink the whole boat.

Maturity is learning to pass on the wrong fish or hand them off to someone who is better built for it. Agencies do not need hundreds of clients. They need the right fraction of the market that values what they do. When you protect your focus, your retention goes up and your stress goes down.

Michael’s agency grows steadily because they stack clients instead of scrambling to replace them. The only clients they lose are the ones who stop paying their bills.

Building a Culture of Innovation Without Burning Out

Agencies talk a big game about innovation, but most owners are stuck riding a bike with square wheels and they refuse to get off, Michael says.

This is the trap most agency owners fall into. They are too busy to innovate, too stuck to delegate, and too overwhelmed to lead. For him, the answer is simple. Get off the bike. Set the direction, and build the space for experimentation, because the future is coming whether you want it or not.

Who Should Lead AI Inside an Agency

Who should lead experimentation when the owner is overwhelmed?

Michael believes someone has to claim the role, plant a stake, and move. At his agency, he oversees the incubator, but several team members drive the work. Your lead developer will experiment with different tools than your creative director. Your strategist will explore different workflows than your media buyer. Give them a budget. Give them a purpose. Give them ownership.

The biggest mistake is waiting for someone else to figure it out. Agencies that delay will be crushed by owners who are willing to get to work and figure this technology out.

Follow your curiosity. For agency owners stepping into that role, Michael suggests absorbing everything you can and staying curious. And for those who are further down in the ladder but still want to lead experimentation with new technologies: speak up and volunteer. If you’re in a culture where that experimentation is not embraced, then maybe it’s time to leave.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

If your inbound pipeline dries up tomorrow, do you have a channel that can refill it on demand? Every agency owner needs at least one reliable way to attract new leads when things slow down. Today’s guest doubled down on a podcast as his inbound engine, and it paid off big.

But launching your first episode is just the beginning. The real growth comes from getting your ideal clients as guests, creating a conversation that builds connection (not just content), and staying consistent long enough to earn momentum. He’ll break down how to find the right niche, build authority through partnerships, and turn podcasting into a powerful inbound system that keeps quality leads coming in on autopilot.

Chase Clymer is the co-founder of Electric Eye, a Shopify Plus partner agency specializing in conversion rate optimization (CRO) and e-commerce growth strategy. Since 2016, he and his team have been helping direct-to-consumer brands optimize their digital storefronts to drive measurable results. Beyond his client work, Chase also hosts the Honest Ecommerce podcast, where he interviews founders and shares unfiltered lessons on what it takes to grow an online brand.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• On his strategic partnership with Shopify.

• Podcasting as a business development engine.

• The key to consistently booking great guests.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Touring Musician to E-Commerce Marketer

Before entering the agency world, Chase was a touring musician in a pop punk band. The road life didn’t pay the bills, so he began experimenting with photography, design, and digital marketing, all skills that eventually laid the foundation for his agency.

Towards the end of his music career, Chase’s future co-founder Sean approached him with a few freelance projects. They quickly found themselves with six clients, and a lot of questions about taxes, pricing, and structure.

The early chaos of being creators first and business owners second forced them to learn fast, especially when it came to how to position themselves, how to deliver results, and ultimately, how to specialize. As Chase puts it, “We realized if you can validate the results you’re getting for people, they’re going to be happier to pay you.” That mindset led them toward e-commerce, where success is measurable and client satisfaction is tied directly to sales metrics.

How Strategic Platform Partnerships (Like Shopify) Accelerate Agency Growth

One of the biggest accelerators for his agency was its partnership with Shopify. When the agency first started, they were platform-agnostic, working across WordPress and other technologies. But after joining Shopify’s Partner Program, Chase and his team found something rare — an actual human on the other end of the email. That support led to event invitations, collaboration opportunities, and eventually a deep specialization that positioned them as trusted experts.

Chase credits much of their success to that early alignment. “We just happened to be in the right place at the right time,” and the lesson for him was: pick your ecosystem wisely and go all in. He advises other agency owners to double down on one technology or niche rather than trying to be everything to everyone. “If your roof is leaking, you don’t hire a general contractor, you hire a roofer,” he says. It’s the kind of clarity that will help you see real growth.

Does this mean you should only aim to partner with Shopify if you’re in the ecommerce niche? Not at all. Chase recognizes that part of their success story came from having found Shopify at its early stages. This allowed the agency to grow alongside them and unlock more opportunities.

Using a Podcast as a Scalable Inbound Marketing Channel

For many agencies, lead generation is an uphill battle. For Chase, it became a creative outlet that turned into a consistent revenue driver. In 2019, he launched his podcast, Honest Ecommerce, as a way to avoid writing blogs. But over time, it became a cornerstone of his agency’s inbound and relationship strategy.

Chase now uses the podcast to connect with ideal clients by inviting them on as guests. Instead of cold outreach, he reaches out on LinkedIn to CEOs of brands he admires, offering them a platform to share their stories. That invitation often leads to partnerships, friendships, and often clients. “You’re not starting off on your back foot,” he explains. “You’re building a genuine relationship.”

Chase also uses the podcast to gain access to industry events. With a media pass, he’s able to attend conferences, host panels, and meet prospects in person. Once relationships are formed, his back-end systems, from automated follow-up emails to segmented nurture lists, keep his agency top of mind until the timing aligns for collaboration.

Proven Outreach Strategies to Book High-Value Podcast Guests

When Chase comes across a brand doing something interesting, he doesn’t pitch them services. Instead of positioning himself as another agency trying to sell, he looks to position himself as a platform offering value first.

Once a potential guest accepts, Chase sets up a short 15-minute pre-interview call that he personally conducts. He uses this session to walk them through what to expect, answer any questions, and — most importantly — build rapport. As he puts it, “More time in the paint (more reps) makes the second conversation a lot easier.” That small investment of time pays off, turning what could be a stiff Q&A into a relaxed, real conversation when recording day comes. This pre-call also helps him assess whether the guest is a fit for his audience and gently coach less experienced founders on how to tell their story in an engaging way.

Then, before the episode goes live, he’ll sometimes nudge guests to check out a few existing episodes from Honest Ecommerce. This helps them get familiar with the tone and flow of his show. Ultimately, the goal for Chase is always to create a cool piece of content. Anything else that may come from the relationship is a bonus.

Why Consistency Is the Real Growth Lever in Podcast Lead Generation

Chase believes all agency owners who are serious about making their business a success need to start building the inbound channels that produce on-demand leads. In his case, starting the podcast was the move that changed everything for his agency.

However, podcasting will take time to produce results and requires consistency. Many business owners start a podcast and then give up after a couple of months. Publishing your first episode is only the beginning. What follows is a commitment to showing up week after week. “That is half the battle,” he says.

Podcasting, like SEO, compounds over time. The relationships built and the authority earned don’t pay off instantly, but when they do, they create an inbound machine that’s difficult to replicate.

Pro Tip: Chase also believes podcasting can be a great tool in staying top of mind for clients and being a better strategic partner. He even does bonus episodes with partners and has a separate newsletter for partners he sends once a month with news of what the agency has been up to (attending a conference, launching a new website, etc). It usually produces at least a few referrals.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

If you’re one of the many owners concerned that AI will end the agency model, what are you doing to stay relevant? How are you building lasting relationships that help clients see your value beyond executing tasks? Artificial intelligence, automation, and enterprise-level change have everyone in the agency world wondering what’s next. However, agencies have managed to stay relevant with past technological disruptions and the answer has always been: you need to adapt.

Today’s featured guest has scaled his business through seven iterations for over fourteen years by being willing to adapt to change, and the AI era is no exception. He’ll unpack how agencies can stay relevant when technology, data, and client expectations are evolving faster than ever. He also talks about the importance of partnership-based client relationships and why soft skills (not just smart systems) are the real differentiator in the next decade.

Ben Childs is the President of Digital Reach, a full-stack B2B marketing consultancy serving SaaS, cybersecurity, AI, and data-driven technology clients. With deep expertise in paid media, SEO, RevOps, and digital experience, Ben’s team helps enterprise companies integrate their marketing, data, and operations to drive real revenue growth. Since launching in 2011, Digital Reach has evolved through multiple “versions” as it adapted to the changing marketing landscape, becoming one of the most respected players in modern B2B marketing.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The soft skills edge that outperforms AI.

• Why you should start running toward the problem.

• The power of in-person connections in a remote-forward industry.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

How Agencies Can Stay Relevant in AI Revolution

At a recent Ad Week event, Ben heard a fellow agency leader predict that all agencies would be “dead in two years” because of AI. Her point: enterprise companies are developing their own language models and internal data systems, cutting agencies out of the picture.

Ben does admit this is true. However, his outlook is more optimistic, seeing several possible solutions. Should agencies be partnering with third-party data providers? Should they adjust their skill set? In his view, the need for strategic expertise and technical problem-solving won’t disappear anytime soon. The agencies that thrive will be those who adapt to new tools while deepening their human value—helping clients navigate complexity, not just execute tasks.

“The reality,” Ben explains, “is that hiring people to help you solve hard problems isn’t going away. Business is always changing, and that’s a huge opportunity for agency owners willing to think and integrate, not panic.”

Why Soft Skills Outperform AI in the Agency World

As agencies evolve, the differentiator isn’t going to be who can use AI faster, it’s who can understand and support people better.

When it comes to enterprise clients, marketing execution has become table stakes. What truly sets a great agency apart is the ability to navigate organizational politics, manage internal friction, and act as a trusted advisor inside complex companies.

“We’re armchair psychologists half the time,” he laughs. “Our clients know we’re good at SEO or paid media. What they really need is someone who helps them get things approved, makes their life easier, and has their back when things get tough.”

Soft problems will never go away and, Ben argues, may even increase in value when the execution problems potentially become commoditized. Agencies that ignore human connection will lose, just like traditional firms that refused to go digital twenty years ago. In the end, the “people part” never goes out of style.

Adapting Your Agency: Lessons from 7 Business Iterations

Ben started Digital Reach in 2011 using his grandmother’s dresser as a desk and charging $200 a month for Google Ads management. Since then, the agency has reinvented itself seven times—each evolution aligning to new markets, services, and technologies.

From scrappy freelancer to B2B consultancy, Ben’s philosophy has stayed the same: build, learn, and change before you’re forced to.

“We’re on Digital Reach 7.0 in 14 years,” he says. “We’ll probably hit version 12.0 in the next ten. You can’t just ride your old business idea into Valhalla. Some people will always be better at adapting, and that will never change.”

WhyPartnership (Not Performance) Determines Client Retention

When agencies talk about “partnership,” it often sounds like marketing fluff. But Ben explains that true partnership is built on trust and reliability, not just metrics.

Most clients don’t fire agencies because of poor performance; they leave because of broken trust, poor communication, or lack of understanding.

“When clients say, ‘You don’t get our business,’ that’s when numbers start to matter,” Ben explains. “If they can’t trust you when things go wrong, you’re done.”

Ben understands that helping clients solve internal problems like procurement delays or team politics can do more to build loyalty than a great campaign. Running toward the problem, taking ownership, and communicating transparently are the fastest ways to strengthen relationships that last across multiple companies.

Build Client Trust Fast by Running Toward the Problem

Other than delivering results and making your clients’ lives easier, Ben believes another powerful way to build trust is not being afraid to admit your mistakes and being quick to fix them. Honesty builds staying power. When agencies take responsibility for missteps and present a clear plan for fixing them, clients respond with respect, not resentment.

Do not avoid the problem. In fact, you should run towards the problem and face the situation head on. You’ll get more benefit of the doubt from clients with this attitude. Ben’s team once led a client call with bad news—the metrics were down. Instead of hiding it, they explained what went wrong, what they learned, and how they’d adjust. “The client was ready to run through a wall for us after that,” he says. “They loved that we owned it.”

The Power of In-Person Connection in a Remote-Forward Industry

As agencies lean more into remote work, Ben calls for agencies to make an effort to meet with clients in person: “In-person will always be in vogue.” It’ll help your clients understand who you are, rather than just staring at your picture on Zoom, and trying to form a true connection.

He encourages owners to set a clear revenue threshold for when to invest in face-to-face meetings—whether that’s a kickoff, annual review, or shared conference. When clients meet you over pizza and a drink, it transforms the relationship from vendor to partner.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is your agency growing fast but still running without the right structure or leadership team to sustain that growth? If too many people are reporting directly to you, it’s a clear sign you’ve outgrown your current setup. But building that next layer of leadership isn’t as simple as promoting your top performers. Without a clear strategy, those well-intentioned promotions can backfire, causing confusion, turnover, and setbacks that stall your agency’s momentum.

Today’s featured guest learned that lesson firsthand. After experiencing a year of costly turnover caused by the wrong management moves, he came away with a better understanding of what real leadership development looks like. In this episode, he’ll share what it takes to scale beyond seven figures, the mistakes that nearly derailed his agency’s growth, and the key shifts that helped him build a stronger, more sustainable business.

Brandon Rost is the founder and CEO of be Marketing, a Pennsylvania-based advertising agency that helps brands grow through creative, digital, and media strategies. Over the past decade and a half, Brandon has built his agency from a solo operation into a multi-million-dollar powerhouse by focusing on relationships, resourcefulness, and relentless problem-solving.

He’s proof that you don’t need to have all the answers when you start, just the willingness to figure it out along the way.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• How to reinvest profits strategically to scale your agency sustainably.

• Why promoting top performers doesn’t already create effective leaders.

• The KPI’s and systems that improved profit and cash flow.

• The mindset shift that turns fast growth into longterm success.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Being Resourceful Is the Key to Building an Agency

Brandon didn’t plan on running an agency. At the time, he was managing social media for a corporate job and bartending on the side when a PR firm owner offered him a shot at managing her clients’ social accounts. What started as ten small accounts quickly snowballed into a full-time business.

Like most early-stage entrepreneurs, he had no idea what he was doing at first. He sent invoices in Word documents, figured out HR and finance on the fly, and said “yes” to every opportunity—then learned how to deliver later. It wasn’t glamorous, but it worked.

That resourcefulness became his superpower. As anyone who has grown a business can tell you, success comes from resourcefulness - not knowing everything. You don’t have to know everything right now. Just figure it out and make it work.

Scaling Up: Investing Every Dollar Back In the Agency

For the first few years, Brandon kept bartending to cover his bills and put every dollar the agency made back into growth. That discipline gave him the runway to build a real company without debt or short-term panic.

He hired his first part-time employee within a year, went full-time around year two, and hit seven figures by year four in 2014. However, crossing the million-dollar mark didn’t come with confetti and fireworks. It came with more responsibility, more moving parts, and a steeper learning curve.

“Everyone thinks hitting a million feels different,” Brandon said. “It doesn’t. It just brings on more work.” Instead of waiting for that milestone to magically change things, focus on building the right foundation so the business can continue to grow without you doing everything. Make it a point to continue to delegate part of that workload every quarter, and after a couple of years, you’ll find you’ve gotten your freedom back.

Learning to Lead and Let Go: Building a Leadership Team

Brandon learned the hard way that leading people requires a completely different skill set than landing clients. As the agency grew, he at one point had seventeen people reporting to him and eventually realized it just wasn’t sustainable.

It was the right moment to create different positions that would oversee different departments. However, his strategy was flawed at first; “We elevated people just to elevate them,” he said. “And it set us back a year.” He never stopped to ask whether or not those employees were ready or even suited for management roles. As a result, they dealt with a year of turnover followed by slowly getting back on track.

The lesson for Brandon was: put the right people in the right seats, and don’t assume your best technician wants to—or should—manage others. Leadership isn’t a promotion; it’s a whole new role.

Knowing Your Numbers and Turning Chaos Into Profitability

Once the business hit its stride, Brandon turned his focus to profitability. He shared how the agency once got caught in a dangerous cash flow loop of collecting Google ad payments for clients and effectively becoming a bank instead of a marketing firm.

After untangling that, his team started tracking key KPIs more closely:

• AGI (Agency Gross Income) in the 55–60% range

• Net profit around 10–12%

• Payroll around 33% of AGI

By simplifying operations and separating client media costs from agency revenue, they stabilized cash flow and built a healthier margin. Simply put, what you measure improves and, for Brandon, that meant finally treating the numbers as a steering wheel instead of a rearview mirror.

Sales: The Last Most Agency Owners Are Ready to Hang Up

Even after 15 years, Brandon still handles most of the sales himself. It’s something he admits he should’ve delegated earlier, but building a sales team isn’t as easy as hiring a “radio guy” and hoping they sell.

After two failed attempts, Brandon realized the problem wasn’t the salespeople but rather the lack of systems. Now, the new plan is to support the team with brand marketing, create a “sales tackle box” full of proven client stories, and build repeatable processes for outreach, follow-up, and closing.

You’ll always be the best salesperson until you document what’s in your head. With the right structure and stories in place, a sales team can finally scale what made the founder successful in the first place.

What Scaling Fast Taught Him About Patience and Culture

Looking back, Brandon said the biggest surprise was how much patience real growth takes—and how easy it is to lose sight of culture while scaling fast. Whether it was figuring out HR policies, managing team dynamics, or setting boundaries for office events, every new level came with a new layer of learning.

He now focuses on balance: growing deliberately, empowering leaders, and making sure the culture that got them here doesn’t get lost along the way. “We’ve learned to grow smarter, not faster,” he said.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How do you ensure the highest possible retention levels at your agency? What reasons do you give employees to stay and develop their careers at your agency? Today’s featured guest hires fresh talent right out of college. People his team can train into the sort of workers who grow with the agency.

However, young talent tends to be ambitious and likely to move on quickly to the next opportunity. To boost retention, he has created a growth path for employees that are a right fit with the agency. He’ll break down how he’s learned to hire intentionally and build a culture that grows people as fast as profits.

McKay Salisbury is the founder and CEO of FiveStar Commerce, an eCommerce agency based in Orem, Utah. His team manages Amazon, Walmart, and Target Plus accounts for over 450 brands annually. What started as a freelancing side hustle on Upwork has grown into a full-service agency focused on team development, in-person collaboration, and steady internal promotion.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to hire and retain young talent in a competitive market.

• Why in-person culture drives faster growth and better retention.

• The career path strategy that turns entry-level hires into future leaders.

• How to build systems that grow people as fast as profits.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Growing his Freelancer Gigs to a Thriving Amazon Agency

McKay’s journey began while working at a small Amazon marketing firm, when he started freelancing on Upwork to make a little extra money. Within six months, his freelance income reached half of his salary, and he decided to go all in. Moving into his sister’s basement, McKay began full-time freelancing, which quickly evolved into his own agency.

Within the first month after quitting his job, he was already matching his old salary. McKay’s early days were lean, but the momentum from focusing entirely on client work set the foundation for future growth.

Hiring Early and Building Support Systems

McKay’s first hire came just a month into freelancing full-time. It was a part-time assistant he had previously worked with. That decision to delegate quickly accelerated FiveStar Commerce’s capacity. Within five months, he added his first full-time project manager and opened a physical office.

Unlike many agency owners who chase remote freedom, McKay found that in-person collaboration gave him structure, focus, and culture. For him, separation between work and home drives productivity. Just like he had learned in college, where studying at the library helped him focus, McKay found it much easier to create great work and culture working in-person. The physical office became the heartbeat of FiveStar Commerce’s growth, helping employees feel part of something bigger and creating accountability that can be hard to replicate remotely.

Why In-Person Work Still Wins for Training and Culture

When it came time to really build his team beyond just a few employees, McKay found it was either difficult or expensive to find the right talent with experience in his particular niche. It wasn’t an option for an agency just starting out, so he leaned on investing time on training young talent. It made sense cost wise, and location wise, given they are near two large universities, which provided a supply of fresh talent eager to learn.

To make this approach work, the agency had to adapt its environment to support constant learning. A central part of this is their in-person operations, since McKay noticed that even the smallest physical arrangements, like which direction desks faced, could impact how quickly new hires learned and that having trainers nearby reduced hesitation and built confidence.

He also observed that remote employees tended to “float away” after 6–12 months. While remote setups can work for certain roles, McKay found that building culture, energy, and loyalty thrive best face-to-face. This philosophy shaped his agency’s identity and helped retain young, ambitious team members eager for mentorship.

Designing Career Paths that Retain Talent

Beyond intentional training, this strategy worked because he paired it with a clear path for career progression. Every employee starts as a generalist learning all aspects of Amazon management, from ads to design to optimization.

After 6–12 months, they move into project management roles, and the top performers advance to senior project manager positions. Each promotion comes with a pay increases - typically around $10,000 per year - which keeps employees motivated and invested in long-term growth.

This proved to be a great way to increase retention, which is one of the biggest challenges for growing agencies. As McKay puts it, “If you’re not giving people a reason to grow, LinkedIn will.”

Personality Over Experience: Hiring for Potential

When hiring fresh graduates, how can you gauge whether or not they’ll be a good fit in the long run? McKay looks for personality traits that predict leadership potential—confidence, communication skills, and curiosity. The interview process focuses on how candidates carry themselves, not just what’s on their resume. Those who communicate clearly and think proactively tend to rise fastest.

This approach ensures that every new hire is a potential project manager within a year or two. McKay views entry-level roles not as long-term positions but as training grounds for leadership. By prioritizing culture fit and growth mindset, he’s been able to maintain consistent quality while scaling quickly.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How are you preparing your clients to start thinking about AI as part of their SEO strategy? Are you educating them on what they can expect now that the landscape is changing with AI optimization? As an agency, you should be starting these conversations because you can be sure your clients are already thinking about AI, even if they still don’t understand its applications for how clients will get to their content.

Artificial intelligence isn’t just changing how people find information, it’s rewriting the rules of search altogether. Today’s featured guest is already running AI audits for his clients; he thinks all agency owners should be doing this. He’ll unpack what AI optimization really means for agencies, marketers, and business owners who’ve lived and breathed SEO for decades.

Vishal Mahida is the Director of Digital Marketing at E2M Solutions, where he helps over 100 agencies scale their SEO and digital marketing operations. With a 40+ person team specializing in SEO, PPC, and operations support, Vishal works directly with agencies on systems that drive measurable growth and keep them ahead of major shifts in the industry.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• SEO vs. AI Optimization

• No, SEO is not dead, so your website still matters.

• Preparing your agency and clients for AI search.

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The Difference Between SEO and AI Optimization

There’s a lot of buzz around how AI has come to change and maybe even replace SEO. Vishal clarifies that AI optimization isn’t replacing SEO, it’s expanding it. Traditional SEO focused primarily on optimizing for Google rankings, keywords, and backlinks. The goal was to get traffic from search results. But as Vishal explains, the modern search landscape has fragmented. Users are now searching on multiple platforms including ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Claude, not just Google.

This shift means brands must move beyond “ranking on Google” and focus on being visible wherever their audience searches for information. Whether someone asks ChatGPT for “the best roofers in Austin” or Google’s AI mode for “running shoes under $5,000,” AI systems are gathering and summarizing information across multiple sources in real time, including social platforms like Reddit, Quora, and LinkedIn.

Think about it as building a multimedia visibility strategy and ensuring your brand, expertise, and answers exist across platforms that large language models (LLMs) pull from. “You’re not optimizing for one search engine anymore,” he says. “You’re optimizing for how the internet talks about you.”

Why Your Website Still Matters in the AI Era

Will websites become irrelevant if AI answers everything for users? According to Vishal, websites won’t disappear, they’ll evolve. Think of them as your source of truth rather than your traffic generator.

When AI summarizes answers for users, it still references real content and authoritative sources. So, your website remains essential for credibility, events, and conversion, even if fewer users arrive there through traditional search. For instance, if someone asks ChatGPT about agency growth events in Austin, and you’ve mentioned your event across social media, your website, and podcasts, AI will likely include it in the results. “That’s how people find you now,” Vishal agrees. “Not just through search but through signals from every platform.”

Of course, you should still think about the content you’re putting out on your website. Are you answering the questions that people are asking? Or you just optimizing for the keywords. Optimizing for the keywords won’t work. People will ask LLMs questions and if you’re already answering them on your content there are more chances that AI results will find you and list your website.

Redefining Reporting and KPIs for Agencies

One of the biggest challenges agencies face is explaining to clients why organic traffic might be dropping even as visibility increases. Why? Traditional SEO metrics no longer tell the whole story.

So how to report back? Basically, you’ll need to educate clients and start measuring mentions, citations, and referrals coming from AI platforms.

Vishal suggests tracking LLM bot hits in server logs and monitoring whether AI crawlers are visiting key pages. These indicators reveal your brand’s visibility in AI-generated results. While raw traffic might decline, the quality of leads and conversions often improves. “You might get fewer leads,” he says, “but they’ll be more qualified, because AI searchers are deeper in their intent.”

Leads from AI chats tend to be more serious buyers who have already researched their problems. The shift, then, isn’t a loss but rather an opportunity to educate clients on new performance indicators that reflect where users actually search today.

Preparing Your Agency and Clients for AI Search

When it comes to optimizing for AI, Vishal recommends a hybrid approach: combine solid technical SEO fundamentals with a new layer of AI-readiness. This includes making sure your site is clean, crawlable, and structured properly, while also ensuring your brand has visibility across other platforms.

At E2M, Vishal’s team runs AI search audits to check how often their clients’ brands appear in LLM answers. They even query ChatGPT and Perplexity directly to see what those systems say about them and their competitors. From there, they reverse-engineer visibility by identifying which platforms, podcasts, or publications help brands get cited more often by AI. Mentions on Reddit, Quora, and podcasts count, even if they’re not linked, because they help build trust signals that LLMs detect.

Agencies, Vishal says, can sell these as AI search audits, AI content audits, or full AI optimization packages — new recurring revenue streams that build on their SEO expertise.

The Human Edge in an AI-Driven World

Agencies can’t afford to be “order takers” who wait for clients to bring up AI. If your clients are asking about AI before you bring it up, you’re already behind. Instead, agencies should position themselves as trusted advisors who help clients navigate the shift confidently.

So go to your clients and start those conversations, or you WILL be replaced by AI. At the end of the day, people still want connection, which is why both Jason and Vishal agree that AI will never replace the human element and the strategy, empathy, and creativity that come from real human connection. People will always want someone that can help guide them through the new marketing trends. As Vishal puts it, “Business owners don’t have time to learn all this. They want someone they trust to handle it.” AI might make average easier, but connection, data, and network will always be your edge.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is innovation truly at the center of your agency operations? Not just what you offer clients, but in how you operate? With AI raising expectations faster than most agencies can adapt, investing in innovation isn’t optional anymore. It’s how you build client trust, stay ahead of disruption, and keep your edge.

Today’s featured guest unpacks his journey from leading the award-winning agency T3 to launching Superstep Capital, a private equity firm investing exclusively in agency and technology-service businesses. His insights cut through the noise on innovation, leadership, and how to stay ahead of the next big shift.

Ben Gaddis still calls himself agency guy. After more than a decade building T3 into one of the nation’s leading digital agencies, serving clients like UPS, 7-Eleven, and JP Morgan Chase he sold the company and launched Superstep Central, a private equity firm investing in agencies and tech service businesses.

When he sold T3 to a private-equity group, he didn’t ride off into the sunset. Instead, he crossed over to what he calls “the dark side,” founding Superstep Capital. Now, he defines his mission as redefining what private equity looks like in the agency world by partnering with founders to scale the right way.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Going all-in on the next wave before clients catch up.

• Why innovation should be treated as an expectation.

• Lessons on creating a leadership structure.

• Why differentiation still wins.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Go All-In on the Next Wave Before Clients Catch Up

Ben’s family has been running T3 since he was born, so it made sense to him that he’d eventually end up in the agency world. Hence, he started his career working at Omnicom, learning from their biggest competitors, and was around when mobile apps became a thing after the launch of the iPhone.

At Omnicom Ben saw how traditional holding companies were too slow to invest in mobile. He didn’t hesitate to seize the opportunity that mobile presented. Frustrated, he took over T3 and bet big on the emerging mobile market. That bet paid off with marquee wins and explosive growth, scaling the agency to $50 million in revenue and around 300 employees.

His advice for agency owners today echoes that same spirit: burn the boats. You can’t half-commit to a new capability and expect to lead it. You can’t expect clients to lead you there. If you want to own a new channel, whether it’s AI, automation, voice, whatever’s next, you have to invest ahead of demand and prove value before anyone asks. If you wait for client demand before you invest, it’s already too late.

Innovation Isn’t a Slogan, It’s an Expectation

At T3, Ben created a culture where innovation wasn’t just encouraged; it was an expectation. So they turned innovation into a measurable habit by creating an “Innovation Match” program where they matched a portion of a client’s spend dollar-for-dollar on experimental projects. Clients got to share in the risk and the reward. Those projects became T3’s biggest success stories and built a reputation for fearless creativity.

T3 chose projects and built roadmaps alongside the clients. turning them into true partners in innovation. The coolest work the agency ever did ended up coming from that program. It even led to another venture project called T3 Ventures, where they invested in c-stage startups.

It was all about surrounding his team with people who were doing the newest and coolest stuff and letting their clients see this. It worked much better to show innovation than to just talk about it. Innovation has to live in your budget, not your buzzwords. When your team sees that experimentation is backed by leadership, and even matched financially, they’ll start bringing the bold ideas that set you apart.

This” Innovation Match” model is a playbook for modern agencies trying to make innovation a repeatable, funded process.

Leadership Has to Grow as Fast as the Agency

Early on, Ben was a young CEO trying to manage instead of lead. He assumed people could read his mind and execute on his vision. That mistake caused turnover and frustration until he hit pause, clarified T3’s mission, and re-aligned around a few focused areas: digital products, loyalty, and CRM.

From there, he learned to build leadership in layers. Initially, he brought on a COO, which seemed like the next logical move; however, it wasn’t the right cultural fit and complicated everything with the team. It wasn’t about what his COO changed, it was how they did it… the entire team rejected this dynamic.

Eventually, Ben was able to bring in a COO who simplified instead of complicating. It not only freed Ben to think creatively again and gave the agency room to scale, it gave him back his creative headspace.

Agency Structure for Scale: Build Practice Leaders, Not Project Managers

The other positive change at his agency was creating the “practice groups”. Instead of spreading talent thin across random projects, they paired a portfolio lead with a subject-matter expert. Each duo owned a P&L and growth target. The result was deep expertise, repeatable wins, and new verticals that practically built themselves. Their restaurant and convenience-store niche exploded from 2 clients to 30 in record time.

This model solves the scaling paradox of how to grow without sacrificing quality. When your experts own both excellence and profit, growth stops feeling chaotic.

The last area they focused on was delivery, fighting to maintain quality as they did the newest thing. In the end, it came down to setting expectations and aligning with clients around what they were bringing to the table. As a result, quality went up.

AI, Sales, and What’s Next for Agency Growth

On the investment side, Ben sees a lot of agencies struggling with hesitation and “no-decision” deals. AI has amplified expectations while compressing margins. Many clients now assume everything can be automated, expecting greater output for less cost.

Thankfully, this trend has decreased, as clients were burned by this overreliance on AI. On the other hand, it’s clear to Ben that agencies should and must be faster and more efficient, and agencies with a clear understanding of what they do and who they serve are not blindsighted by this new reality.

His advice: AI isn’t differentiation, it’s amplification. The edge comes from how you apply it, not the tools themselves. Know your vertical, know your data, and connect AI to real business outcomes.

The agencies that win are the ones that define how AI fits their process - not the other way around.

Why Differentiation Still Wins in the AI Era

The agencies and individuals winning right now aren’t the ones with the fanciest tools or the most automation; they’re the ones combining experience, curiosity, and creativity to use AI in smarter ways. Ben shares the story of an account manager who built her own workflows using AI to research verticals, anticipate objections, and walk into client meetings armed with strategic ideas that wowed executives. She wasn’t a technologist, she was a strategist who understood her clients deeply and used AI as a force multiplier.

That’s the real edge in this new era. Tools are accessible to everyone, but insight and application are not. As Ben points out, it’s your data, your intuition, and your industry expertise that make AI valuable. AI doesn’t replace strategy, it rewards it. The agencies that know their data, their clients, and their niche will always have the edge.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you say your agency is truly profitable? Take a closer look and assess its structure, systems, and tools through the lens of business maturity. You may find you’re still in the chaos stage, in need of structure and vision.

Running an agency often starts with passion and talent, but keeping it running smoothly takes systems, leadership, and a strong operational backbone. This operational maturity doesn’t happen overnight. As today’s featured guest knows well, it’s a process of reflection, restructuring, and relentless improvement.

Harv Nagra is the Head of Brand Communications at Scoro and host of The Handbook: The Operations Podcast, where he explores how agencies and consultancies build scalable, profitable operations. As someone who has spent his career at the intersection of creativity, consultancy, and operations, he’ll discuss the key stages of agency growth, the pitfalls of immature operations, and the leadership mindset required to scale sustainably.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Understanding the agency maturity model.

• Evolving your agency from chaos to clarity.

• Growing your leadership to create framework.

• Data and the path to predictability.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Most Agency Founders Aren’t Natural Operators

Harv has been in the agency space for most of his career, working in marketing and design, and, although he currently works as Brand Communicator for Scoro, he keeps his finger on the pulse of the industry via his podcast The Handbook, where he talks to owners about running great agencies and consultancies.

After speaking with so many founders, Harv is aware that operations is often the blind spot for first-time agency owners. They were very good at delivering a service and ended up being an “accidental founder”.

People start agencies because they’re great at marketing, design, or development, not because they planned to manage P&Ls or build operational frameworks. As a result, growth often outpaces structure, and operations fall behind.

Early on, these agencies prioritize sales and survival, just trying to land enough business to stay afloat. But as Harv emphasizes, there’s a point where founders must transition from doing great work to running a great business. Without operational clarity, even the most talented teams end up winging it, leading to burnout, inefficiency, and missed profit.

Understanding the Agency Maturity Model

One of Harv’s biggest turning points came when his COO introduced him to the concept of a business maturity model. It was an eye-opener. He thought the agency was doing fine, until the framework revealed gaps he didn’t even know existed. It showed him that agencies, like people, evolve through stages, from chaotic startups to structured, data-driven organizations.

The models vary, but there are usually 5 stages:
1. People challenges
2. process challenges
3. Data and metrics
4. Technology and tools
5. Growth strategy

The early stage is where chaos reigns. Processes are tribal, training is informal (“just learn from whoever you sit next to”), and there is no consistent way of working. As the business grows, pockets of best practices emerge, but without unified systems or documentation. The most mature agencies reach a level where processes are standardized, data is reliable, and leaders can make decisions based on insights rather than gut feelings. Unfortunately, only a small percentage of agencies ever get there.

From Chaos to Clarity: Building Operational Maturity

When Harv stepped into an operations role, his agency was stuck between chaos and maturity. Multiple entities were working in silos with inconsistent tools and workflows. Financial reporting was messy, and onboarding was informal. Everything began to change when they hired a finance director who helped formalize budgeting and systemize financial operations. Together, they redefined how projects were quoted, tracked, and managed, bringing consistency and visibility that had been missing for years.

It’s a common growing pain for agencies that scale faster than their systems. As Jason recalls, before implementing time tracking, he believed all clients were profitable. The data told a different story: 60% of projects were actually losing money. That realization forced him to fix pricing, reposition the agency, and rethink sales and operations from the ground up.

The Leadership Shift: From Fighting Fires to Frameworks

Many agency owners reach a ceiling because they’re still running their business as they did in the early days. As he moved up the ladder, Harv and his team tried to get the agency’s leadership team to realize they were spread too thin, with each senior leader juggling multiple internal roles alongside client work.

Once leadership saw the problem, the real work began; creating clarity, documenting systems, and assigning accountability. The key here was clarity, so Harv and this finance director documented everything from budgeting to time tracking, to reporting and resourcing. It was a huge leap in maturity and it consolidated when the founders brought an interim COO who audited operations, restructured the organization, and helped senior leaders focus on strategic leadership instead of firefighting.

Finally, there was a clear understanding of where the agency is going, who it serves, and how it operates. Without that, leaders end up managing chaos rather than building growth.

Data, Tools, and the Path to Predictability

As Harv’s agency matured, the next challenge was data and technology. Their systems were outdated, and reporting was cumbersome. Upgrading their tech stack allowed them to collaborate across borders, manage multiple entities, and gain visibility into key metrics like capacity and revenue forecasting. This shift toward being data-driven enabled proactive decision-making instead of reactive problem-solving.

Alongside technology, restructuring played a key role. The agency had to make tough decisions about team composition, ensuring the right people were in the right seats. As Harv put it, “Just because someone’s been there from the beginning doesn’t mean they’re the right fit for the next phase.” It’s a difficult but necessary mindset for sustainable growth.

Letting Go — The Hardest Step in Agency Maturity

For founders,  growth means letting go. Letting go of old habits, outdated systems, and sometimes even long-time team members. Many owners treat their agency like a baby, and it’s a mistake. When leaders cling too tightly, they become the bottleneck. True maturity happens when they can trust the team, delegate decisions, and focus on leading rather than managing.

As Harv summarized, agencies should think of themselves less like families and more like sports teams where each player has a role, and the lineup changes as the game evolves. The goal isn’t comfort, it’s performance. That’s what separates agencies that evolve from those that plateau.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How would you go about making acquisitions to accelerate your growth? Would you buy for revenue, culture fit, or client roster? Would you be willing to fire big clients that are holding your agency back? Most agency owners chase growth by saying “yes” to everything, from new services, new clients, and every new opportunity. Today’s featured guest built one of the fastest-growing mobile and digital agencies in the world by narrow focusing, firing bad-fit clients, and mastering the art of strategic acquisitions. Today he’ll unpack how his agency evolved from a small mobile startup in Tel Aviv to a global digital powerhouse working with brands like Google, Uber, Samsung, and Microsoft.

Gilad Bechar is the CEO and founder of Moburst, a mobile-first marketing and digital transformation agency with offices in Tel Aviv, New York, and San Francisco. Since 2013, Moburst has helped startups and Fortune 500s alike scale their reach through creative, data-driven, and tech-forward strategies.

Under Gilad’s leadership, the agency has raised capital, acquired multiple specialized firms, and built proprietary technology that keeps them ahead of the curve in AI, mobile UX, and cross-platform performance.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The similarities between the mobile boom and the new AI era.

• Raising capital without losing control.

• Using acquisitions as a growth strategy.

• The power of saying no and focusing on fit.

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This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From A Mobile-First Niche Focus to Global Agency Powerhouse

When Moburst launched in 2013, the agency world was flooded with “digital experts” who claimed to understand mobile. Most didn’t. Gilad noticed that agencies were simply repurposing desktop experiences for smaller screens without real mobile UX thinking, no data-driven optimization, and definitely no understanding of how users behaved differently on apps.

That insight became Moburst’s edge. Instead of trying to compete as another full-service digital shop, they doubled down on mobile-first marketing. They mastered app store optimization (ASO), performance tracking, and mobile UX design. That focus helped them land early wins with major clients who were desperate for expertise in a fast-changing environment.

As Gilad puts it, “When you show big clients that a critical piece of their marketing is being ignored, and you can fix it, that’s your entry point.”

The AI Parallel: Most Agencies Talk, Few Deliver

Gilad sees history repeating itself with AI. Just like the early mobile days, everyone’s suddenly an “AI expert.” But the difference between hype and real expertise shows up fast in a conversation.

He believes the proof lies under the hood. Real experts can answer deep implementation questions: which tools integrate best, how to handle data security, and what AI models perform for specific tasks. Pretenders can’t.

For agencies, this is a reminder that credibility is earned through insight, not jargon. Clients see through the buzzwords. And the ones who don’t will eventually learn when the work doesn’t deliver.

Raising Capital Without Losing Control

Unlike most agency founders, Gilad took venture funding, not once, but three times. But he did it differently.

Instead of giving away huge equity chunks, Moburst only diluted small percentages (around 6% each round). The investors came to them after seeing how fast their clients were growing.

Without that, his agency wouldn’t have its current success in the US market and would probably still be a very local agency in Israel. That capital gave him the means to hire a team in New York and then eventually move there to lead that office.

It was the start of many new opportunities for the agency, like building internal tech tools that set them apart. It was also the way his team has stayed ahead of the curve from competitors that are not investing in the future and stay too focused on the right here and now.

Furthermore, despite having 11 investors, Moburst kept full control. Only one board seat represents all investors, and it can’t override the founders’ decisions.

According to Gilad, that control is what allowed them to make hard but smart moves, like firing clients and cutting costs in 2017 when growth was strong but profitability wasn’t.

The Hard Reset That Saved the Agency and Restored Profitability

In 2017, Moburst was scaling fast but losing money just as quickly. The agency was adding clients and headcount, but without the right systems to manage profitability.

At one point, they were bleeding up to $70,000 a month. So Gilad made the tough call: he cut unprofitable clients, reduced staff, and rebuilt the agency around systems that supported healthy margins.

“It was brutal,” he admits. “We let go of big, well-known clients we loved working with. But it didn’t make sense to keep losing money just to say we worked with them.”

That painful reset worked. By 2018, the agency was profitable again and positioned for sustainable growth. That reset set the stage for their next evolution: acquisitions.

How to Use Acquisitions as a Growth Strategy (Not a Gamble)

Moburst’s acquisition strategy wasn’t about buying revenue or chasing vanity growth. It was about buying capabilities that solved their biggest operational gaps.

Their first acquisition was a video production studio they had already worked with for over a year. The partnership was strong, the culture aligned, and the collaboration was smooth. So they brought them in-house in 2019 and the agency’s offerings instantly expanded.

Then they looked at their next biggest outsourced expense: web and app development. So in 2022, they acquired a dev shop after a successful collaboration period.

In total, Moburst has made five acquisitions, each one following a simple rule: test first, integrate later. As Gilad says, “We don’t buy to solve problems. We buy what already works and multiply it.”

When asked about whether or not these brands keep their names after acquisition, Gilad says it all depends on their brand authority. If they do great work and have a solid team but their brand isn’t as strong, then it’s best to just bring it under the Moburst umbrella.

In case they do have a strong brand, then they’ll just make sure their website reflects they are part of a larger group.

How to Structure an Agency Acquisition Deal the Smart Way

For agency owners eyeing their own M&A moves, Gilad shared his preferred deal structure. Each acquisition has four key components:

• Cash upfront - Rewards founders for their hard work.

• Equity - Gives them a stake in the larger vision.

• Dividends - Paid yearly so they benefit from the agency’s profits.

• Performance bonuses - Tied to the profitability of their specific business unit.

This structure keeps founders motivated and aligned for years to come, without the traditional burnout that comes from rigid earnouts. Everyone wins when growth is sustainable and collaborative.

Why Firing Bad Clients Helps Scale Smarter

One of the biggest lessons Gilad takes away from journey is the courage to say no: to clients, deals, or directions that don’t fit.

Agencies often cling to bad accounts out of fear of losing revenue, but simply put, that’s a silent killer. If you’re not profitable on a client, you’re not just breaking even; you’re paying for the privilege of overworking your team.

Moburst’s growth didn’t come from doing more — it came from doing what mattered most. By focusing, pruning, and strategically acquiring, Gilad turned a niche mobile startup into a global digital powerhouse.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How are the new technologies and tools shaping the future of agencies? How can you create an agency that outlasts trends? When you’ve been around for 75 years in the ad world, you’ve seen it all, from Mad Men, media buying by fax, the rise of the internet, and now, AI. Today’s featured guest runs an agency that has been doing full-service marketing since 1950. What’s impressive isn’t just their longevity but also how they’ve stayed relevant and human in a business that changes faster than a TikTok trend.

Jennifer Spire is the CEO of Preston Spire, an independent Minneapolis-based creative agency that’s been helping brands grow with full-service marketing since 1950. She’s the agency’s fourth CEO, starting in small independent agencies, rising through global holding companies, and bringing both worlds’ lessons to how she leads today. That mix of experiences shaped her leadership style grounded in independence, driven by creativity, and fiercely protective of agency culture.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Building a culture that lasts seven decades and beyond.

• Why independence still matters in the agency world.

• The future of agency talent and AI.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How One Agency Has Stayed Relevant for 75 Years

Preston Spire started as a design shop in 1950 and quickly grew to a full service advertising agency, which differs from what we think of as full service today. Over the decades, it’s evolved continuously, reinventing itself with every shift in marketing.

Jennifer says the real secret to their longevity is adaptability. “It’s really hard to continue to evolve and stay strong, but I think there’s a lot to be said for an agency that can evolve and still grow while being relevant.”

Now they’re 25 years away from a century, which is both impressive and humbling, as well as something they want to highlight more. Surprisingly, some advisors have actually told Jennifer it’d be best to not mention their 75-year run, since some might assume a 75-year-old agency should be bigger by now.

However, Jennifer has a different perspective. For her, you don’t have to be one of the biggest agencies to be better and longevity isn’t a weakness but rather proof of resilience and reinvention.

From Big Agency Bureaucracy to Small Agency Freedom

Before joining Press Inspire, Jennifer spent years inside the machine of large agencies, where shareholder-driven decisions often overshadowed what’s best for clients or teams. There, she learned that you don’t have to be bigger to be better, a philosophy that now fuels how she runs Press Inspire, as she has chosen to keep it small enough to stay personal but strong enough to compete with anyone.

Once she left the big-agency world for an independent shop, Jennifer cut her teeth doing everything from answering phones, assisting on shoots, starting media departments, and running PR. That early experience taught her the one skill every agency leader needs — resourcefulness — something she now encourages young people to develop early in their careers.

Her time at big agencies, though, showed her what not to do. “You end up making decisions that are best for shareholders, not clients,” she said. “At a smaller agency, I wanted everyone to be able to chart their own path and make decisions that serve both the client and the team.”

Building an Agency Culture Keeps People for Deacades

People stay for decades at Preston, some for 37 years, others 30, and three just recently celebrated 25-year anniversaries. That kind of loyalty is nearly unheard of in today’s agency churn cycle.

So what’s the secret? Balance. Jennifer encourages collaboration between long-time employees and newer hires with fresh perspectives. The agency operates in a hybrid setup, with three days in-office to keep creativity flowing while maintaining flexibility. It’s a rhythm that keeps collaboration alive without burning people out. “Being together helps,” she said. “That human connection is something you can’t replicate over Zoom.”

Their internal compass is guided by what they call COOP values: Courage, Originality, Openness, and Positivity. The team is encouraged to take risks, fail fast, learn, and keep moving forward.

Leading with Clarity: Building Alignment and Growth Paths

Jennifer may be CEO, but being at a smaller agency she’s not above the grind. She manages operations, oversees HR and finance, and still maintains direct relationships with every major client. That visibility matters because, as she explains, clients need to know leadership is invested in their business.

Her team structure also breaks down roles by what percentage of their time is spent leading, managing, or making. This clarity helps people grow without being shoved into management if it’s not something they want for their careers. This way, they get to build their unique path within the agency, a key to keeping them happy with their work.

Quarterly goals, regular feedback, and individualized growth paths keep everyone aligned and fulfilled — a framework that scales culture without micromanagement. Furthermore, constant feedback, quarterly goals, and individualized growth paths help keep everyone aligned and fulfilled.

Why Staying Independent Still Wins for Some Agencies

Does a 75-year-old independent agency get offers from the big holding companies? They do, actually; all the time. Jennifer says M&A emails land in her inbox daily. But she’s not interested. “We’ve had serious talks with other agencies,” she said, “but we’ve said no every time. Staying independent is critical to our success.”

If they sold, they’d probably start making decisions for investors instead of their people and be back in the big agency world she escaped.

For Jennifer, independence isn’t just about control, it’s about protecting the culture that makes their agency different. The freedom to put clients and people first is what keeps the agency thriving.

Preparing for the Future: AI’s Impact on Agency Talent

Jennifer’s not blind to the future. She’s already planning staffing and financial strategy through 2030, a move that would make most agencies sweat. One question she’s wrestling with: how AI will change entry-level roles and career paths.

“AI has been an incredible tool and has allowed us to be more efficient,” she said. “But if it takes away too much of the junior work, where do mid-level people come from five years from now?”

The truth is that the jobs won’t vanish, they’ll evolve. Junior people using AI can perform at mid-level. Mid-level people can perform like senior leaders. You’ll just need fewer of them.

Still, Jennifer sees it as a call to action for colleagues and agency leaders alike: train people not just in the AI tools, but in critical thinking, problem solving, creativity, and the human side of marketing.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever looked at your agency’s bank account and thought, “We’re crushing it!” only to realize two months later that half that cash wasn’t really yours yet? Or maybe you’ve hit that milestone where you start wondering what your agency might be worth if you sold it tomorrow… but your books are a confusing mix of guesswork and gut feelings.

Today's featured guest was a finance expert before falling in love with the agency world and has the experience to show how smart financial planning (not just getting more clients) can completely reshape your agency’s future. From forecasting and cash flow to the hard truths about selling, this conversation is packed with real-world lessons every agency owner needs to hear.

Lacie Edgeman is the partner and co-owner of PrograMetrix, a digital paid media agency that focuses exclusively on programmatic advertising. With a background in finance, she oversees operations and financial strategy. However, like most small-agency leaders, she’s worn just about every hat at some point. Her unique blend of financial discipline and operational savvy has helped her agency grow smart, not just fast.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The superpower too many agencies ignore.

• Cash vs. accrual accounting.

• Why you should always be tracking these two KPIs.

• How much cash should you keep in the bank?

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How a Finance Major Became an Agency Owner

After earning a finance degree, Lacie joined a digital agency in Austin as a billing coordinator and quickly discovered she loved the chaos. “You either love it or you hate it,” she says. “I love the fast pace environment and the fact that it challenges me.”

That early exposure to how agencies really work, from billing quirks to client chaos, gave her a perspective most creatives never get. By the time she joined PrograMetrix, she wasn’t just another partner with ideas; she was the numbers-minded operator who could make sure every big creative idea actually paid off.

Forecasting: The Superpower Too Many Agencies Ignore

From a finance perspective, Lacie’s biggest message for agency owners is to stop running their business off their checking account.

“Future planning is where most agencies miss the mark,” she says. It’s important to review your historical, of course, but Lacie recommends creating a forecast and revisit it quarterly. This way, if you want to add $1 million in take-home revenue, you can map out exactly which KPIs need to move to make that happen.. This is way, if you, for instance, want to add $1 million in take-home revenue, you can map exactly which KPIs need to move to make that happen.

That forward focus creates smarter, calmer decisions; especially when things get uncertain. You can’t sleep easy until you know what’s coming in, what’s going out, and how your pipeline will affect cash flow six months from now.

Cash vs. Accrual Accounting: How to Stop Fooling Yourself About Profit

When Lacie joined PrograMetrix in 2019, one of her first moves was switching from cash accounting to accrual accounting, a game changer for any media agency. Why? Because when you’re handling large media budgets, those big lump payments from clients don’t actually mean profit.

Accrual accounting forces you to recognize revenue when the work is done, not when the check clears. “It’s the only way to see what’s actually happening,” Lacie explains. Otherwise, agencies can get fooled into thinking they’re thriving when all they’ve done is temporarily hold pass-through media dollars. For anyone running paid media, she considers accrual accounting “painful but essential.”

Furthermore, accrual accounting becomes critical when you’re planning to sell your agency. It’s not just about cleaner books, it’s about protecting your valuation. In cash accounting, all incoming payments hit your revenue the moment they land, even if you haven’t delivered the work yet. That can make your agency look healthier than it really is. However, a smart buyer will spot it—and they’ll adjust your purchase price down to reflect any undelivered work.

If you’re serious about eventually selling, move to accrual accounting early so your books reflect true earned revenue. It not only helps you understand your real profitability but also builds trust with future buyers.

Building the Right Financial Advisory Team for Your Agency

Anyone with prior experience selling a business will probably tell you “if you’re planning on selling soon, don’t rely solely on a broker”. Brokers are financially motivated to close the deal fast, not to get the best terms. Instead, surround yourself with people who don’t have skin in the game.

Considering that most agency owners probably come from a creative background, Lacie suggests finding financial mentors or advisers who will tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. You don’t have to become a QuickBooks expert, but you do need to understand what your financials are saying about the health of your business.

2 KPIs Every Agency Owner Should Track

If Lacie were stranded on an island and could only get one napkin of financials, it’d include two numbers:

1. Topline Revenue (excluding media spend)

2. EBITDA (basically your take-home before taxes)

EBITDA is very important here, because you can have great revenue but without free flowing funds to invest back in the business, you’ll still be a red flag for potential buyers. Those two tell her almost everything about an agency’s financial health. “You can only cut costs so far,” she says. “At some point, you have to grow the top line strategically.” The real game is in balancing both, keeping a clean cost structure while expanding profitable revenue.

Owners should also understand adjusted EBITDA, which adjusts for one-off expenses, to get a clearer view of your operational performance. It’s something a potential buyer would do any way to get a more accurate picture of your agency’s financial health.

How Much Cash Should You Keep in Reserve?

Ask ten agency owners this question, and you’ll get ten answers. Lacie says three months of operating cash is the industry rule of thumb, though she’s heard advisers tell sellers to shrink that down to one month before an acquisition. Many would disagree with that advice, but ultimately the right number depends on your risk tolerance and client concentration.

If a single client dominates your revenue, then the most important advice would be to secure a line of credit before you need it. Losing a “gorilla client” (one worth more than 20% of your revenue) can wreck cash flow overnight. A credit line buys you breathing room so you don’t start saying yes to bad clients just to make payroll.

Niching Down Is the Key to Profitability and Valuation

For Lacie, niching down was the single best move for PrograMetrix. “When you try to be everything to everyone, you can’t scale,” she says. Every one-off client that doesn’t fit your core offer quietly drains profit and focus.

She urges agency owners to ask themselves if they’re offering the right services and double down on what they’re great at, not just good at. The rule is simple: the more focused you are, the more you can charge. Start by raising prices for new clients and soon the gap between legacy clients and new ones will convince you of the need to raise prices for legacy clients too. One mastermind member added $72,000 in monthly recurring revenue simply by repricing existing clients after niching.

Each year, Lacie’s team audits their client roster to identify accounts they’ve outgrown. It’s never easy—many are long-time relationships—but letting go of clients who no longer fit is what creates room for bigger, better ones.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What would happen if one client lawsuit, one hacked account, or one missed renewal completely wiped out your agency? Have you ever stopped to think about how exposed your business really is even if you’re “doing everything right”?

Today's featured guest started his career working in the insurance industry and eventually found a love for marketing. He talks about the side of agency life most people ignore: protecting what you’ve built, and breaks down how to safeguard your business with the right insurance, why every agency should have cyber liability coverage, and how a “give first” mindset has helped him land major clients like Daymond John, Chris Voss, and Dr. Benjamin Hardy.

Draye Redfern is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Redfern Media and FractionalCMO. Over the past decade, he’s built and sold multiple companies, including a $40M insurance agency acquired by one of Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway subsidiaries. With 15 years in risk management and a passion for modern marketing, Draye now helps businesses scale smarter while protecting their downside.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How “Growth Blindness” Can Hurt Your Business.

• The Hidden Risk Most Agencies Ignore.

• Why You Probably Need a Cyber Liability Insurance.

• How to Get Big Clients by being in the Right Rooms.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Unlikely Path From Insurance to Marketing

Draye grew up in a household where entrepreneurship was a way of life. His dad owned a business, and by age 12, Draye was doing the grunt work: filing papers, scanning documents, and learning what it really meant to keep a company running. He had a front-row seat to the chaos and grit of small business.

Over time, Draye realized he had a knack for marketing. His early ideas sometimes outperformed everyone else’s, and by his early 20s, he was leading the marketing division of a $28 million firm. Under his direction, they scaled past $40 million in annual revenue. That success led to the company’s eventual sale to none other than one of the Berkshire Hathaway companies.

Stop Being Growth Blind and Start Protecting the Downside

While most marketers are obsessed with lead flow and growth, Draye brings a completely different mindset to the table: protect the downside first. After spending 15 years insurance and the risk management world, he learned that too many businesses are “growth blind.” They’re chasing top-line numbers while leaving themselves totally exposed if something goes wrong.

For his part, Draye thinks about how to mitigate downside risks first and then, once he has that locked down, then he starts thinking about growth. Admittedly, it’s backwards from how most people do it, but it’s what makes the most sense to him.

 The Hidden Risk Most Agencies Ignore

Why does Draye prioritize mitigating downside growth? Most agencies don’t think about errors and omissions (E&O) insurance until it’s too late. One poorly worded ad, a leaked password, or a miscommunication with a client could lead to a lawsuit that costs hundreds of thousands—if not millions—in legal fees.

That’s why he recommends a basic “risk protection stack” for agency owners:

• General Liability – Covers physical damages or slip-and-fall type issues.

• Employment Practices (EPLI) – Protects against HR-related claims.

• Errors & Omissions (E&O) – Covers mistakes or oversights in your work.

• Cyber Liability – Protects against data breaches and hacks.

As Draye puts it, marketing agencies hold the keys to dozens of client kingdoms. If you get hacked, they get hacked. Protect yourself first, then scale.

Why Every Agency Owner Needs Cyber Liability (and What Happens If You Don’t)

Most agency owners assume general liability insurance has them covered. Slip-and-fall in the office? Sure. But what about when a client’s site gets hacked because one of your team members reused a password? Or when a campaign you ran unintentionally exposes customer data? That’s not covered: this is where cyber liability and errors & omissions (E&O) insurance come in.

Here’s where most people go wrong: they forget to renew. Unlike car or home insurance, E&O and cyber liability policies are “claims-made” policies. That means you’re only covered if the policy is active when the claim is filed, not when the incident happened. So if you let your policy lapse, even for a few weeks, you could lose coverage for everything that happened in previous years.

That’s why many experienced owners “tail out” their policies when they sell or sunset a business. Tail coverage locks in past protection for a set number of years. It costs more upfront but prevents millions in potential exposure later.

Keep your coverage active, review it annually, and don’t cut corners to save a few hundred bucks. Think of it as part of your agency’s operating system, not an optional add-on.

Lessons From Selling to Berkshire Hathaway

When Berkshire Hathaway came calling, he learned just how deep corporate due diligence can go. “They fly out all their MBAs and basically give your business a financial colonoscopy,” he joked.

But that process forced him to see business from a different lens—as an asset, not a job. He walked away with not just a successful exit, but also a new appreciation for how structure, systems, and compliance create enterprise value.

How to Get Big Clients: Ask Questions, Be in the Room, and Give First

Draye’s agency has publicly traded companies in its current client roster, with some notable names including Dr Benjamin Hardy and Chris Voss, and almost all of those brands came to his agency because Draye was in the right rooms to strike up conversation. As he puts it, successful people like to hang around other successful people.

To him, his job in the agency at this point is figuring out how to get invited into the room with the right people, which includes joining masterminds and attending events.

Even with big clients, Draye recommends offering value first without expecting anything in return. I’ll give them an idea of the work you do and, if they like it, they’ll have you in mind the next time they need agency services.

For instance, after attending a talk by Dr. Benjamin Hardy, Draye had the chance to chat with him and learned he was pulling in over 30,000 email opt-ins a month but wasn’t monetizing them. Instead of pitching a retainer, Draye built him a simple funnel — for free — that started generating $10,000 a month in passive revenue.

A few months later, Hardy came back and asked, “What else can you do?” That turned into a long-term partnership and a roster of launches that ran for years.

How to Stand Out and Make People Feel Seen

Draye’s other secret weapon is personalization. Not the lazy kind where someone drops your name into a cold email template. Real personalization.

When a prospect says they’re interested, his team clones a landing page, updates the name in the headline (“Welcome, John!”), and records a 30-second video personally greeting them. The whole process takes fifteen minutes, but it makes people feel like they matter, and that’s the part most agencies forget.

That simple touch has led to multiple referrals, long-term clients, and lasting loyalty. As Draye puts it, “People don’t want to feel like a number. They want to feel like they matter.”

This type of simple gesture is usually something clients talk about non-stop, because the more automated the world gets, the more human connection stands out.

Old School Is the New Advantage

While everyone else is obsessing over AI and inbox deliverability, Draye see a lot of potential on a forgotten channel: direct mail.

“People’s inboxes are full, but their mailboxes are empty,” he explained. “So, when something real shows up, it stands out.”

He’s seen massive ROI from direct mail, especially when paired with personalized URLs (PURLs) and custom video. It’s more expensive upfront, sure, but it cuts through the noise. Something to keep in mind for agency owners trying to stand out at a time when your client’s emails are probably inundated with the same offers everyone is sending out.

From his own experience, he says “if I were to look at our client base across the various businesses, the vast majority came from direct mail.”

Protect Your Business and Hang Out in Different Rooms

Draye shares two pieces of advice for agency owners: You never know what’s around the corner, so protect your business. Spend the couple thousand bucks on proper coverage. Don’t risk your agency’s future over something preventable.

Change your rooms. If you only hang out with other marketers, you’re limiting your reach. Take Jay Abraham’s advice and go fishing in someone else’s swimming hole. Attend events for other industries, add value, and you’ll be amazed at who you meet.

In short, Draye’s philosophy blends practical protection with proactive growth. Be bold enough to give first, smart enough to protect what you’ve built, and intentional enough to show up where the right people are.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever wonder why some brand podcasts blow up while others die after five episodes? Or why a few companies seem to build die-hard fans while other can’t seem to connect? Today’s guest specializes in helping brands create podcasts that deliver true value. He explains how brands can use podcasting to build real connection, not just rack up downloads. From breaking up with the traditional ad world to creating top-ranked shows for global brands, he reveals why consistency, authenticity, and a bit of weirdness might be your secret weapons.

Roger Nairn is the Co-Founder and CEO of JAR Podcast Solutions, a brand podcast agency based in Vancouver, BC. With a 25-person team, Roger helps brands like Amazon and Sage create shows that connect deeply with their audiences. After spending over two decades in the advertising world at top agencies like DDB and Cossette, he’s now on a mission to show companies that the real ROI of podcasting isn’t downloads, it’s attention and connection.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• What brands really want in a podcast.

• Why consistency beats quick wins.

• Audiences prefer audio podcasts over video ones. Why is that?

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Ad Exec to Agency Founder

Before podcasting, Roger spent more than 22 years in the traditional advertising world and loved the culture, but he noticed the industry shifting. Programmatic ads were taking over, budgets were shrinking, and the whole game was turning into a race to the bottom. Around the same time, Roger started podcasting as a hobby, mainly as an excuse to talk to people he admired like Seth Godin and Stefan Sagmeister.

When he eventually connected with his co-founders, they realized there was a wide-open opportunity for brands to use podcasts in a smarter way. JAR Podcast Solutions was born. The idea wasn’t just to launch shows, but to help brands understand their audiences and create the kind of binge-worthy audio content that builds trust over time.

What Brands Really Want in a Podcast

One of Roger’s first steps was sending out message to ten different businesses on LinkedIn. The second response he received referred him to the head of marketing of Sage, a brand whose audience wanted to explore wellness beyond traditional medicine. A few days later they sat down to discuss what a podcast could look like for that brand and ended up creating Well Now, a show about taking control of your health through alternative approaches and powerful personal stories. The show took off, so much so that it briefly outranked Oprah in Apple’s health and wellness category.

The key wasn’t just producing episodes, it was research. Roger’s team uncovered what Sage’s audience really wanted and built the podcast around those needs. This is true for every brand wanting to launch a podcast: stop creating content for yourself, and start with what your audience actually cares about.

Consistency Beats Quick Wins

Contrary to what many think, podcasting is not an overnight growth hack. Too many brands think they’ll see results instantly. The reality is building an audience takes time. The good news is that, according to Roger, the podcast industry remains incredibly friendly and willing to collaborate, which is a great way reach new audiences.

Other important steps to grow include pitching your show to big platforms like Apple Podcasts and getting them to feature it, as well as the actual merchandizing of the show. All of this, however, will amount to nothing without the most important element: consistency.

If you want to stay consistent, do not compare yourself with the big players out there. This is the biggest enemy of consistency and will only lead to frustration. Don’t expect to be the next Joe Rogan in year one or you’ll end up disappointed and unmotivated to keep posting.

Instead of focusing on vanity metrics like downloads, Roger recommends focusing on consumption. Without a doubt, creating a podcast might be the single most important things you can do to build your brand. If your listeners are spending two hours a month with the brand, that’s two hours of intimate attention—something no other marketing channel can match.

Why Audio Wins Over Video

While many companies want both video and audio, audio tends to outperform. According to Roger, this happens because listening to a podcast is intimate. It’s you in someone’s ear while they drive, work out, or walk the dog. It’s “me time,” not multitasking. Compare that to video, where distractions are constant and attention spans are short.

Unless you’re a celebrity like the Kelce brothers or Joe Rogan, most people aren’t going to watch two talking heads for hours. They’ll sample a short video clip, but they’ll actually consume the full conversation in audio. The portability of podcasts makes them an executive’s favorite medium, because you can take them anywhere, from the car to the gym to the airport lounge. In fact, new research shows that people will switch how they’re watching throughout the day. They may start watching it on their TV and later switch to audio while they’re at the gym.

The Real Secret: Authenticity Over Perfection

Beyond consistency, Roger emphasized that the best podcasts bring personality and vulnerability to the table. Listeners don’t want a polished corporate message. They want the real you with flaws, mistakes, and all. Listeners often recall personal details Jason’s mentioned on the show, like anecdotes about Aspen. That intimacy is what makes podcasts such a powerful trust-building tool.

The trick is to stop trying to sound like someone else. Early on, stop trying to be the next Gary Vee and see how much better authenticity works with the audience. As long as you’re being yourself and keep consistent with posting, you can become that reliable friend that is now part of their routine and consistently delivers value to them.

Once they’re loyal listeners who trust you, joining your community - or even buying from you - becomes a natural next step.

The Weird Side of Podcasting

Of course, every podcaster has their weird stories.

For his part, Roger recalled recording with a guest who had to set up shop in a hotel closet, surrounded by pillows and blankets, just to dampen the echo. Not glamorous, but it worked. Jason has also recorded a podcast at a hotel room, when right after a speaking event he was approached by two attendees who said they inspired him to start their own podcast and would go buy the equipment right that moment and wanted him to be their first guest. They saw the opportunity and took it.

This is the reality of podcasting: it’s not about perfection, it’s about connection. If you’re waiting for the perfect studio setup or production conditions, you’ll never start. Get scrappy, launch, and let the consistency carry you forward.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What do you do when your career takes an unexpected left turn? And how do you know when it’s time to stop hustling like a freelancer and start leading like a CEO? Today’s featured guest found herself in that situation and made the bold choice to go from career misstep to becoming an agency owner. She'll dive into what it really takes to go from a one-woman shop with dial-up internet to leading a team with vision, systems, and staying power. From handwritten letters with a 15% close rate to breaking free from client dependency and leveraging AI without losing the human touch, she shares the hard-earned lessons every agency owner needs to hear.

Kriston Sellier is the President and Founder of Id8, a specialized branding agency based in Atlanta. With more than 25 years in the business, she’s built a reputation for helping food, beverage, and manufacturing brands stand out and thrive. Kriston is passionate about research-driven branding, cultivating strong communities, and proving that the human side of leadership is just as critical as the strategy.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:                                   

• Starting over after being fired.

• Outgrowing freelance mode.

• What do agency owners need to grow?

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Thriving in the Agency World After Being Fired

Kriston didn’t step into agency ownership with a clean, corporate plan. She was fired. After leaving IBM to co-found an agency, she found herself pushed out after a handshake deal gone wrong. At 20-something, she was suddenly unemployed and staring down two options: get another job or finally chase her dream of starting her own shop.

It wasn’t easy, but that leap turned out to be the right one. Starting out with no clients, she set a modest goal of making $35,000 in her first year. Instead, she closed out her first nine months with $90,000. That was the moment she knew she wasn’t just freelancing; she was building something real.

From Cold Calls to Handwritten Letters: Building the First Client Base

Kriston started with just a basement office and dial-up internet. Since this was the 90s, if her husband picked up the phone line upstairs it would disconnect the whole system.

She started out making cold calls to every food and beverage brand in the Yellow Pages. Additionally, she also sent handwritten letters pitching her services, yielding an impressive 15% close rate. In today’s digital-first world, that kind of return sounds impossible, but back then it got her first wave of clients. It’s a reminder that persistence and a personal touch can cut through the noise, even if the tools have changed.

Outgrowing Freelance Mode and Thinking Like a CEO

Like many agency owners, Kriston spent the early years acting more like a freelancer than a CEO. That all changed in 2006 when one client made up 75% of her business. The sleepless nights and anxiety from being handcuffed to a single account forced her to rethink everything.

A colleague recommended working with a business consultant, so Kriston hired one and for four years, she worked with a full-time consultant who helped her transition from operator to CEO. That shift meant putting systems in place, committing to sales, and most importantly, diversifying her client base. Within the first year of working with her consultant, she added 25 new clients and broke free from the one-client trap.

What Agency CEOs Need to Grow?

Kriston strongly believes that CEOs should surround themselves with subject matter experts. Every agency owner needs a good advisory board that tells them the truths they doesn’t necessarily want to hear, which is why she recommends relying on financial, HR, and sales consultants that can help you look at things from a different perspective.

Regarding her role as CEO, Kriston definitely sees herself as more of a coach than a manager. For her, leadership is about helping team members uncover the real issues behind their challenges and guiding them to their own solutions. Likewise, the best team members are those who show they’re coachable and open to feedback.

She doesn’t see failure as the end of the road but as a symptom of something deeper. Her job is to help her team ask the right questions, recognize the root cause, and take ownership of the fix. That shift from micromanaging tasks to coaching outcomes not only freed her up as a leader but also empowered her team to make better decisions without her constant oversight.

AI, Research, and the Future of Agencies

Running a research-based agency, Kriston is a big fan of Perplexity, a research-focused AI she uses 20–40 times a day for everything from writing stronger emails to analyzing massive datasets. But she’s quick to point out that AI isn’t a replacement for agencies—it’s an enhancer.

Where some fear AI will eliminate agency work, Kriston agrees that companies will still want experts to navigate the complexity and not DIY everything themselves. Clients may use AI for certain tasks, but they’ll still rely on agencies for strategy, creativity, and execution..

AI + human expertise is the winning formula. And with large organizations outsourcing more marketing again, Kriston believes the future is bright for agencies that bring innovation, research, and personal connection to the table.

Cooperation Over Competition

Kriston wants agency owners to stop treating each other like competitors and start seeing each other as collaborators. She believes the industry’s future depends on agency owners being open, honest, and willing to share both wins and lessons learned.

Most agency owners see every other shop as a threat when they’re starting out, fearful of competition instead of open to collaboration. At some point, however, through masterminds and peer groups, they come to realize the real growth comes when owners start to build community and create strategic partnerships.

For Kriston, it all comes back to community, the same mission she set when she started ID8 decades ago. Build the community, and the business will follow.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you really implementing AI in your agency the right way? Adding a random tool just to say you “use AI” isn’t the game changer many agency owners hope it will be. In fact, chasing shiny AI solutions can waste time, drain resources, and create tools your team never actually uses.

Many agency leaders, especially those aiming to build a sellable business, assume any form of AI integration will automatically boost their agency’s value. But today’s featured guest strongly disagrees. He’s seen firsthand how agencies fall into the trap of building solutions first and searching for problems later, a costly mistake that does more harm than good. Instead, he’s here to share how to approach AI adoption strategically, in ways that actually stick and drive real results.

Ken McLoud is the CEO of Laconic Technologies, a business that aims to help agencies figure out how to make AI actually useful. His specialty is finding high-leverage spots in your agency where AI can unlock growth without bloating your headcount.

Ken helps owners avoid wasted tools and instead roll out AI that gives their teams real superpowers.

In this episode we’ll discuss:

• How agency owners are forcing AI integration the wrong way.

• When to use custom code.

• A case study of real world wins and misses.

• The future of AI in agencies.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Stop Forcing AI Where It Doesn’t Belong

Ken specializes in helping agency owners start to think strategically about AI. One of the first things he warns about is the “solution in search of a problem” trap. Too many agency owners decide, “We need to be using AI somewhere,” and then jam it into the wrong part of the business. That usually leads to tools that sound cool but don’t move the needle, or worse, meet resistance from the very team that’s supposed to use them.

Instead, Ken suggests starting with the business itself. Are you demand-constrained (needing more leads) or supply-constrained (too much work, not enough capacity)? His litmus test is simple: if a fairy godmother doubled your clients overnight, would you cheer or panic? That answer tells you where the bottleneck really is, and that’s the exact spot where AI should be applied.

Case Study: Smarter Finance Insights with AskQuick.ai

Ken worked to build AskQuick.ai with Nate Jenson, a fractional CFO who worked with tons of agencies. Nate had deep financial expertise but needed a way to scale his brain. Together, they built AskQuick.ai, a chatbot trained on Nate’s own textbook of agency finance.

The result was a tool that taps into a client’s QuickBooks data to deliver specific insights, like spotting which clients are actually losing money. After a rebrand, he is now marketing the product as a simple, agency-friendly tool rather than a complex back-end.

No-Code Tools vs. Custom Code: Where’s the Breaking Point?

Every agency owner has been tempted by tools like N8N, Zapier, or Make.com. According to Ken, these tools are perfect for simple workflows and stuff you could explain in one or two sentences. These tools are often pitched as something anyone with a computer and no experience ca n use, but once your automation starts piling up with dozens of nodes, things break constantly, and you spend more time fixing than benefiting.

That’s when it’s smarter to build custom code. Ken compares it to driving stick shift: more control, less frustration, and often a way faster solution.

AI As a Superpower Not a Replacement

For Ken, the real promise of AI isn’t replacing people, but rather upgrading them. He calls it “giving your team superpowers.” By offloading the repetitive, low-value work to AI, you free up your people to focus on strategy, creativity, and client impact.

Instead of fearing AI, most teams welcome it. Nobody loves repetitive tasks, and when you use AI to clear that away, your staff gets to spend more time on what actually lights them up.

Real-World Wins (and Misses)

If you’re wondering how some agencies are using AI right, Ken has seen quite a few examples. For instance, an Australian medical agency built a custom chatbot trained on years of proprietary medical content. The tool now helps their writers quickly draft accurate, technical marketing content; something that would have taken hours of research before. Huge win.

On the other hand, this agency built a classic example of a solution in search of a problem. Basically, the owner wanted an elaborate folder system to organize AI chats. It sounded clever, but the writers never actually needed it. Why? Because new AI queries were faster than digging through folders. A perfect example of chasing a solution before identifying a real problem.

The Future of AI in Agencies in Plain English

Looking ahead, Ken sees AI becoming a tool to replace code and processes. Many things we used to hardwire with messy “if-this-then-that” logic can now be handled with prompts. That means non-technical agency owners can adjust systems in plain English instead of hiring a developer every time they need a change.

These tools can make all the difference for agencies that get hundreds of deals come through every day and need a quick way to sort through the ones that can be most profitable from those that likely won’t. In these cases speed is everything and AI can deliver in a way that human response cannot.

However, Ken is also clear that not every problem should be handed to AI. High-value, low-risk areas, like grading prospects or filtering opportunities, are perfect testing grounds. Mission-critical, high-risk functions will probably still need human oversight for a while.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What does it really take to keep an agency alive through market crashes, pandemics, and the endless grind without burning out or losing your edge? Today’s featured guest will unpack his journey from starting in a basement with a couple of clients to leading a 30-person team through some of the toughest seasons an agency can face. From navigating financial blind spots to learning how to actually let go and trust his team, and the reason the agency’s 25th anniversary actually marked a big shift with a new rebrand.

Bill Swanston is the president and founder of Bosun, an Atlanta-based agency that just celebrated its 25th anniversary. Formerly known as Frederick Swanston, the agency has weathered market crashes, client shakeups, and a pandemic while building a powerhouse team with deep creative and digital chops.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The challenges that really tested the agency’s resilience.

• How learning to love KPIs saved the business.

• Why rebrand after 25 years?

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Building Through Adversity and Surviving 9/11

After moving back to Atlanta from New York, Bill was freelancing at BBDO and thinking about switching to smaller agency. As he saw it, it was better to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Unfortunately, his gig at the smaller agency was short lived, since the agency shut down for good. Instead of packing it in, Bill and his partner Scott Frederick grabbed a few clients, set up shop in a basement, and got to work. Built-in revenue gave them a smoother start than most scrappy entrepreneurs, but reality set in quickly.

By the early 2000s, they were hit hard by 9/11 and its ripple effect on corporate events. It was a reminder that whether you’re at a big holding company or running your own small shop, stability is often an illusion. Surviving those first waves meant keeping overhead light, grinding it out, and learning how to adapt before the word “pivot” became a business cliché.

The Challenge that Really Tested the Agency’s Resilience

Partnerships can make or break an agency and Bill admits the early years with his partner had their rough patches, not as creatives, but as business owners learning how to disagree productively. Over time, their different strengths meshed into what became a powerful leadership duo.

But nothing tested the agency quite like COVID. With a staff of 30 suddenly looking to them for answers, the partners had to act fast. They slashed salaries, cut their own pay completely, and relied on federal relief programs like PPP loans to keep the team intact. That lifeline, combined with quick adjustments, got them back on track. As Bill put it, “It was the absolute worst period of time for the agency. But we came out stronger because we had no choice but to figure it out fast.”

From Gut Instinct to KPIs That Saved the Business

Like a lot of creative-led shops, Bill and his partner weren’t exactly obsessed with financial metrics at first. According to Bill, they mostly leaned on QuickBooks, check-writing, and gut instincts. That worked until it didn’t. By the time they realized improprieties had slipped under the radar, they knew it was time to upgrade.

Today, they track everything from salaries as a percentage of adjusted gross income to AGI per employee to recurring revenue versus project-based work. They also look at revenue per client to ensure there isn’t any one account that is overwhelming the team. Like many agencies, they had this happen at one point, with a client that accounted for 50% of their billing. He remembers being scared once this client started to dwindle as a result of the ‘08 crisis, which taught him the danger of relying on superclients that can walk away and take half your revenue with them.

Bill stresses that KPIs aren’t about being a math whiz, but about having clarity. Knowing your true profitability by client or department means you stop guessing and start making better decisions. “We do it for our clients,” he said, “so we’ve got to do it for ourselves too.” Nowadays, he works with an external CPA and an internal comptroller who help him keep an eye on the agency’s finances.

Pro tip: If you’re not yet at the point where you can have a CFO but don’t know where to start to assess your agency’s financials, use askquick.ai. It’s a tool developed by Jason and his team that’ll help you figure out your most profitable clients, assess your financial red flags, measure your KPIs, and more.

Learning to Let Go and Empower the Team

For the first decade, Bill and Scott were deep in the weeds, reviewing every creative output, managing every account, carrying the business on their backs. Eventually, the workload became too much and they had to learn how to trust others.

Empowering team members to make real decisions wasn’t easy. It started organically as new hires took over account management, media, and digital responsibilities. Over time, Bill realized the work improved when people felt ownership and felt empowered to shape the agency. “The ability to let go and trust others is essential to grow your agency,” he says. This trust not only gave the agency room to grow but also gave Bill and Scott the freedom to step back from being prisoners of their own business.

Why Would a 25 Year Old Agency Rebrand Now?

After two and a half decades as Frederick Swanston, the founders made the bold move to rebrand as Bosun to better reflect what they’d become. The decision was about more than a new logo. According to Bill, keeping their surnames in the brand felt too self-centered and didn’t reflect the agency’s culture.

The rebrand signaled a shift: it’s not about Bill or Scott anymore. It’s about the team, the clients, and the relationships that actually fuel the work. While rebrands often make clients nervous, Bill said the transition was seamless. In fact, many partners celebrated alongside them, proving that strong relationships matter more than the name on the door.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What does it really look like when employees step up to buy the agency they’ve helped run for years? Today's featured guest will share how she and her partners carried forward the 30-year legacy of an agency founded in the days of print and stamp, a business that has not only survived but thrived through three different ownership handoffs.

You’ll hear how they transitioned from licking envelopes to leading digital campaigns, navigated buying the business during COVID, and tackled the imposter syndrome that comes with suddenly being “the boss.” If you’ve ever thought about selling your agency, or buying one, this conversation is packed with lessons on culture, succession, and keeping an agency alive for the long haul.

Alyssa Ash is one of the principals and co-owners of AOR, a creative and digital agency focused on branding, marketing, and web, with a strong focus on real estate development, municipalities, and economic development projects. Think housing solutions, community connections, and projects that shape cities—that’s their sweet spot.

Alyssa and her two business partners are the third generation of owners keeping AOR alive since its founding in 1992. A rare kind of legacy in agency land.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How employees can be groomed into ownership.

• Lessons from buying an agency during COVID.

• Why imposter syndrome is normal (and even healthy).

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

A Legacy of Print and Culture

Back in ’92, AOR wasn’t cranking out websites or SEO strategies. It was the time of print design, direct mail, licking stamps, and die-cut lounge chair mailers that made people long-time clients. It’s not common that an agency that gets acquired lives on like this, but the founders had built something special. Each generation of owners didn’t just grow the client list—they protected the culture.

When the founders sold 13 years after starting the business, keeping that culture intact was non-negotiable. Fast forward again, and Alyssa’s crew inherited not just an agency, but a philosophy: honor the people and the community as much as the work.

Transitioning from Employee to Owner

Unlike an outside buyer swooping in with an SBA loan, Alyssa and her partners were homegrown leaders. They’d each put in 10–15 years, running departments in strategy, sales, and operations. By the time the second set of owners started floating the idea of selling, the trio was already running day-to-day operations.

At first, the conversation was casual, “Would you even want to own the agency someday?”, but over time it got real. The financial side was initially not even part of the conversation, although they did give a reasonable runway of five to ten years for the acquisition to happen. The fact that three of them shared the load made the acquisition possible.

While the thought was intimidating at first, the gradual handoff built their confidence. By the time the deal closed, ownership felt less like a leap and more like the next natural step.

Navigating an Agency Acquisition During COVID

If you’ve ever thought about buying or selling an agency, you know the financing part can get tricky. For Alyssa and her partners, COVID hit right in the middle of negotiations. On one hand, this made it somehow easier for her and her partners to step even more into their roles as heads of the agency. While the owners stepped back from daily operations, Alyssa and her partners made the transition to their new roles.

On the other hand, the pandemic did complicate things as SBA loans looked risky with interest rates climbing. Thankfully, the old owners worked out a five-year owner-financed note instead.

That decision didn’t just save them financially, it cemented trust. The outgoing owners wanted the next generation to succeed and structured the deal so everyone won. As Alyssa put it, “It didn’t feel like a big shift… because we’d already been doing it.”

Fighting Imposter Syndrome (and Why That’s Healthy)

Even with 15 years in the trenches, Alyssa admits stepping into ownership brought its fair share of imposter syndrome. She was still quite young, even though she felt comfortable leading day-to-day operations. This is where the former owner’s trust really helped. They put her in a position to succeed and trusted she could make it.

Ultimately, every agency owner feels that, no matter the stage of their career they’re at when becoming an owner. In fact, it’s the ones who don’t who usually get tripped up by ego.

Preparing the Next Generation

So, is Alyssa grooming her team for eventual ownership? Not yet, it’s too soon. But she is watching for the traits that made her and her partners natural fits: entrepreneurial thinking, leadership instincts, and a bias for taking responsibility.

Her advice to other agency owners thinking about succession:

• Don’t overlook your employees as potential buyers.

• Give them time and a runway to grow into the role.

Protect your culture by keeping it in the hands of people who already live it.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Most agency owners stumble into their first business almost by accident, learning as they go. But have you ever considered buying your first agency as a way to enter the industry with a head start? The right acquisition can give you an established team eager to keep growing, a base of engaged clients, and strong positioning in the market.

Today’s featured guest took this path and is now the proud owner of a thriving agency. He always knew he wanted to run his own business, and when it came time to choose an industry, the agency model was the perfect fit for his love of project management and tech.

He shares how he chose and purchased his agency, why he was fortunate to instantly click with the previous owner, the kind of deal structure he recommends for these situations, and the lessons he’s learned along the way.

Zander Barth is the Director of Colophon New Media, a website development and digital marketing agency in Charleston, South Carolina. He isn’t your typical agency owner since he didn’t start his agency from scratch. Before that, he was managing boiler houses and wastewater plants as a chemical engineer. His path went from factory floors and Tesla consulting gigs to agency owner.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why buy instead of build an agency from scratch?

• Retaining clients and culture in an ownership transition.

• Acquisition deal structure: earnouts, financings, and gotchas.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Buy vs Build: Why Acquistion Wins

Most agency stories start the same way: someone freelances, gets referrals, and suddenly they’re running an agency. Not Zander. Having always wanted to work for himself, he was set on finding a business to acquire after realizing he didn’t want to stay in the corporate grind. Instead of an MBA, he gave himself what he calls a “redneck MBA”—a crash course in QuickBooks, masterclasses, and every free course he could get his hands on.

His search started broad. He looked at electrical contractors, engineering firms, and everything in between. But when a broker introduced him to Colophon New Media, something clicked. The agency world lined up with his love for project management, customer communication, and tech. He hit it off with the founder, who was ready to retire, and within four months, Zander was under a Letter of Intent (LOI).

The Transition: Keeping Clients and Culture Intact

One of the biggest risks in buying an agency is losing clients or losing the team. But Zander got lucky. The founder stayed on for six months to ease the transition, the team had incredible tenure (average of 8–10 years), and clients stuck around. Instead of turnover chaos, he stepped into a culture that was already strong.

What he focused on was core values. He knew the agency’s success was built on the team’s shared beliefs and long-term commitment. His goal: protect that culture while adding new faces who align with it. Processes and systems matter, but at the end of the day, it’s the people and values that keep clients around.

The Deal: No Earnout, Straightforward SBA Financing

Zander’s purchase deal was simple:

• 10% equity down

• 10% seller note

• 80% SBA loan (7A)

No earnout. Was it risky? Maybe. But for him, it worked because he and the seller had great rapport. They respected each other, and shared the goal of keeping clients happy and the agency thriving.

However, Zander is very aware of how lucky he was and that is not always the case. So his advice for agency owners is to structure the deal in a way that people are incentivized to help the business grow after they’re gone.

Pro tip: Before buying, always ask the seller why they’re really selling. Burnout, boredom, or just wanting to hit the road in an RV with their spouse - it all matters. If their motivations align with your vision, you’ve got a shot at a smooth handoff.

Surprises, Gotchas, and the Role of Luck in Acquisition

Every acquisition has surprises. For Zander, it wasn’t massive skeletons in the closet but rather small bits of “tribal knowledge” that came up months later. Old client quirks, history buried deep, the stuff you don’t see in due diligence. His mindset was just to roll with it. “I just try to get good at riding the wave,” he said.

And he’s honest about it: luck played a big role. You can prep all you want, but signing a deal that puts you on the hook for big debt is scary. You’ve got to trust your gut on the seller and back yourself to figure out the rest.

Zander’s advice is to make sure you vibe with the seller. As odd as it sounds, there’s nothing more important in his experience than feeling he was able to truly understand the seller. He wanted someone who was really proud of their legacy and willing to grow and protect it.

How AI is Shaping M&A and Agency Operations

Back when he bought the agency, Zander was still not using AI in both due diligence and agency work. Now, however, he’s building “co-pilot bots” to analyze data, troubleshoot, and even stress-test M&A opportunities. His advice for other agency owners: if you’re not using AI daily, you’re leaving efficiency—and insights—on the table.

AI won’t always 100% right, but it gets you thinking differently. For M&A especially, tools like ChatGPT can surface blind spots you didn’t even know existed.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is hiring one of the biggest challenges you’ve faced when it comes to running your agency? How do you sift through hundreds of applications when most don’t even read the job description? Today’s featured guest opens up about the realities of building a team, the role that gave him his time back, and why finding the right people, not unicorns, but the right fits can make or break an agency’s growth.

Dan Salganik is the managing partner and CEO of VisualFizz, a Chicago-based digital full-service marketing agency. He spent years working at agencies of every size and learning of the many flaws in their operations: bloated overhead, work designed more to win awards than to serve clients, and inefficiencies everywhere.

Instead of sticking it out, he decided to try something different. With the help of a co-founder he met online, he turned his freelance gig into an actual business. Within nine days of their first conversation, they had their first paying client. Once they were at three clients, they decided it was time to make it official and started VisualFizz.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The digital nomad myth.

• Hiring as the biggest challenge for agency success.

• The unicorn problem.

• Why the big guys should be worried.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Inspired to Create Something Better After Working With The Big Guys

Dan’s path into agency life started straight out of college, working at agencies as a project manager. He saw how the big guys worked and was frustrated by the waste. Expensive office space downtown, teams focused on portfolio-building instead of client results, and layers of inefficiency that didn’t make sense to him.

After a layoff, he started contracting and freelancing. After a while, he figured if he was already selling his time, why not build a team and sell more than just his own hours? Partnering with a co-founder who brought SEO and paid search chops, he launched VisualFizz for just $50 and a “crappy logo.”

The Digital Nomad Myth

At first, Dan thought the digital nomad lifestyle was going to be the dream. He traveled through Asia, working out of hostels, hopping on 2 a.m. client calls from rooftop hotels, and running projects with a global team scattered across South Africa, Kuwait, and the U.S.

It sounded cool on paper—but the reality was brutal. Trying to serve U.S. clients while living 12 hours ahead was a recipe for burnout. As he put it, “If you’re traveling to Southeast Asia and trying to hit U.S. hours, you’re in for a rude awakening.” Over time, he realized international travel had to shift into more realistic time zones if he wanted to scale the agency.

From Scrappy Start to Scaling Smart

VisualFizz didn’t take off by accident. From the beginning, Dan and his co-founder knew they wanted more than just a freelancing partnership. She had the technical expertise, he had the business and sales skills, and together they leaned into that divide. Their first clients came on at around $2,500/month retainers, which felt big at the time. But what really set them apart was their willingness to sell the agency model—not just themselves as individual contractors.

Dan admits the early days were DIY to the extreme. He designed the first website, created the brand, and hustled every step of the way. But over time, they shifted from being “just two freelancers” into a legit business with structure, processes, and a growing client roster.

Why Hiring is Always the Hardest Part

Dan didn’t hesitate when asked about the hardest part of running an agency: hiring. In a business where you’re selling knowledge and time, having the right people is everything. And finding those people can be tough, especially for smaller agencies.

Posting a single job ad often results in 700 to 1,500 applications—most of which are noise. Dan prefers entrepreneurial-minded hires over candidates with perfect credentials. He values people who can adapt, who want to learn, and who bring a cultural fit to the table. That’s how he’s built a team that can handle change in an industry that shifts constantly.

Like most founders, Dan has had terrible interview experiences with candidates who applied mindlessly as soon as they saw an opening and didn’t bother to read anything about the profile required. People were showing up to interviews while in their card eating, not even knowing the company’s name, and clearly not having the skills required.

If you’ve ever found yourself in this position, overwhelmed by resumes and constantly interviewing the wrong people, bury a hidden instruction in your job post, like requiring a candidate to send a video with a specific subject line to a private email. The people who follow directions prove they’re serious. The rest self-select out, saving you hours of wasted interviews

Tired of the fancy resumes and disastrous interviews, Dan has turned to his contractors. He’s hired people who had contracted with the agency for years, which of course had the advantage of already understanding their capabilities and knowing they were up to the task. Furthermore, Dan considers himself to be very fiscally conservative when it comes to hiring, so he prefers working with the person until he feels he can comfortably hire them to be a full-time team member.

The Hire That Changed Everything

For Dan, the biggest game-changer was bringing in a project manager who grew into a project lead. Having someone who could take ownership of processes, build out SOPs, and even tell him to log off at 6 p.m. gave him the space to focus on the bigger picture, strategy, branding, and biz dev.

The right project manager isn’t just checking boxes. They protect your time. They let you walk into client conversations clear-headed instead of stressed about whether a deliverable is behind. When they can run the team and operations, you can finally do the job of a CEO: winning new business and setting the direction of the agency.

Stop Chasing Unicorn Hires

What’s the next hire on Dan’s list? A hybrid between a campaign strategist and a creative marketing manager. Someone who can think strategically, get hands-on with campaigns, and still spot when an SEO report doesn’t make sense to a client. Sounds great but also sounds like a unicorn.

As most agency owners eventually learn: unicorn hires exist, but you can’t build a hiring strategy around finding them. Instead, hire clearly defined roles—project managers who love execution, account managers who thrive on client leadership. When you stumble across someone who can flex across lanes, great. But don’t make that the expectation.

How to Train Your Team to Sell Naturally

Dan’s agency doesn’t run with a traditional account manager structure. Their PMs double as client leads, which means Dan had to find a way to make sales training part of the culture without turning his team into pushy salespeople.

The secret to this training is storytelling. Instead of saying, “Hey, we can upsell you,” his team learns to connect client comments with relevant success stories. If a client mentions running a content audit, a PM can naturally suggest looping in the SEO lead, not because they’re chasing revenue but because they know it will help the client. Over time, this approach builds trust and positions the agency as a partner, not just a vendor.

Positioning in a Shifting Market

Dan has seen client expectations are moving “down a notch” lately. Big brands that once chased Ogilvy or Leo Burnett are now hunting for mid-sized partners. Those mid-sized companies are shifting to smaller shops. And boutique agencies like VisualFizz are landing $100–500 million clients who want to be a top priority instead of client number 142 on a massive roster.

It’s the boutique hotel effect. Clients don’t always want the 3,000-room resort. Sometimes they want the place where the staff knows their name, treats them like the biggest deal in the building, and still delivers world-class service. For smaller agencies, that’s a huge opportunity to win the types of clients that used to feel out of reach.

Why Lean Agencies Have the Edge

The future isn’t kind to bloated agencies. What used to take 100 people a few years ago could now be done with 40, or even 15. Large firms with huge overhead and outdated models will struggle unless they pivot, merge, or find a vertical niche.

Meanwhile, smaller and mid-sized agencies that can move fast, price smart, and deliver with a lean team are better positioned than ever. As Dan put it, even Fortune 500 companies are asking, “Why should I pay $50k a month for SEO when I can get the same expertise at $8k?”

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever feel like running your agency is just one long grind of “good enough” projects, endless deadlines, and late-night work sessions? Most agency owners start out chasing freedom, only to find themselves trapped by clients, culture challenges, and their own workaholic habits. Today’s featured guest is certainly familiar with this cycle, so how was he able to build a business that works for him instead of the other way around? By focusing on clarity, culture, and constant evolution.

Dan Fisher is the founder of Bottle Rocket Media, a Chicago-based video production and digital marketing firm. Before running his agency, Dan spent a decade in television, including a long stretch as an editor at The Oprah Winfrey Show. What started as “making a few videos for people” turned into a full-fledged agency after his partner joined. Today, Bottle Rocket Media blends storytelling with digital strategy to help brands communicate with impact.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Data meets creativity.

• The agency he “thought he should build”

• Culture as a compass.

• Redefining work and energy.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Leaving TV for Agency Life

Dan wasn’t setting out to build an agency. He was a New York kid, worked on TV production in LA, and then got tapped on the shoulder for a gig at Oprah. When he landed in Chicago, he figured he’d be there a couple of years. Ten years later, he had a family, a house, and roots that weren’t going anywhere.

After leaving TV (not a moment too soon, according to him), he just started making videos for people. Then his partner came on board, and suddenly it was more than a side hustle. It was a real business. That’s when Dan realized he was no longer just a TV guy—he was running an agency.

What TV Taught Him About Storytelling

TV wasn’t all glitz. Dan loved the storytelling, the cameras, the lights. However, running a daily show can crush even the strongest souls. Deadlines piled on top of deadlines. Three to four episodes a week meant three to four immovable deadlines every week. Still, it gave him his 10,000 hours. He learned how to tell stories fast, direct, edit, and manage creative teams.

Most importantly, TV taught Dan the importance of knowing your audience. At Oprah, there was always an “audience of one”—Oprah herself. He’d have the version he wanted to tell, and then the version she’d actually approve. That lesson carried into agency life: storytelling isn’t about you, it’s about your client. You’re not making an indie film; you’re telling their story in a way that serves their brand.

The Continual Evolvement of Creativity

Bottle Rocket Media isn’t trying to be Hollywood. They focus on nonfiction storytelling, documentary-style content, education-driven pieces, spokespeople, and commercial spots. What makes their approach stand out is how they marry creative instincts with marketing data.

Working in the creative field never ceases to surprise Dan who, even now, expects something to land well with audiences and sees the complete opposite happen. This is why he and his team lean into A/B testing. Sometimes it’s the tiniest tweak: a subject line in an email, a color shift in a graphic, or moving the ending to the front of a video. It’s a reminder agency owners need: you can be confident in your craft, but the market has the final say.

From Filmmaker to CEO

When he started, Dan assumed he’d be miserable doing the “operations” side. But mentoring, managing, and building a team turned out to be just as rewarding as calling “action” and “cut.”

He’s learned the balance between doing and teaching. Having 10,000 hours of experience doesn’t mean you always tell the story better than a fresh intern. It means you know how to refine, manipulate, and see perspectives others might miss. At Bottle Rocket Media, they encourage collaboration. Editors critique each other’s work. Ideas bounce around. And Dan stays focused on a critical question every creative leader should ask: Am I making it better, or just making it different?

From “Good Enough” to Defining Excellence

It took Dan years to reach what he calls his maturity, after trying to be “the agency he thought he should be”. Eventually, after banging his head against the wall for a long time, he realized the power of clarity—both personally and professionally. He started the business as a way to make ends meet after leaving TV, but it was time to define his goals with the agency and make it his own.

Once he stopped chasing someone else’s model and leaned into his own strengths, everything changed. The real turning point wasn’t in working harder, but in defining what success actually looked like for him and his team.

Culture as a Compass

Clarity doesn’t just guide you, it’s also something you can instill in your team. Once Dan started defining his agency’s beliefs, he could attract people who truly fit. To him, if your team is not going in the same direction, then what’s the point?

But culture hasn’t been easy, especially post-pandemic. Bottle Rocket Media runs on a hybrid model: three mandatory in-office days, with Mondays and Fridays remote. For Dan, it was about letting go of his old Gen X “first one in, last one out” mentality and adapting to a younger workforce. The result is a stronger, more unified team—even if they’re not physically together every day.

Redefining Work and Energy

Coming from TV, where it’s not rare to work up to 70 hours a week, Dan initially started his agency using the volume model, which is what he knew. Once the business was up and running, his hours were still pretty similar to what he was used in TV.

Eventually, however, it got to a point where a trusted employee expressed he was at his breaking point, and Dan knew it was time to dial down. Working beyond a certain limit didn’t make him better, it was just making him an ineffective leader.

That shift changed how he managed his team, starting by cutting off the bottom 20% and elevating the types of projects they do. This way, with clear goals and clear deadlines, he’s building the kind of leadership that creates loyalty and sustainability.

Always Be Evolving

The agency game changes daily. Right now, AI is shaking up video and digital marketing. What worked yesterday won’t always work tomorrow. If you want your agency to survive, curiosity is the ultimate skill. Test, adapt, and don’t get too comfortable.

That philosophy is why Dan’s agency has evolved from purely video into a full digital offering. On the video side, he had to learn how to let go and empower others. On the digital side, he leans entirely on his team’s expertise. In both cases, growth depends on staying open to new approaches and trusting the right people to execute them.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you wondering how AI will really change the way agencies work? Will it replace your team, or make them better than ever? Artificial intelligence continues to be at the forefront of most tech conversations, and that’s exactly why agency owners can’t afford to ignore it.

Today’s guest believes the real future of AI in agencies isn’t about replacement—it’s about augmentation. Humans bring the high-leverage ideas, AI scales the execution, and the magic happens in the collaboration between the two.

That’s why he challenges his team to master a skill first—understanding every step—before delegating pieces of it to AI. By doing so, they not only achieve stronger results but also gain the ability to explain, teach, and refine the process. For agencies, this thoughtful integration turns AI from a threat into a powerful accelerator.

Josh Payne is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Coframe, which helps businesses continuously optimize their digital experiences. Before that, he co-founded Autograph, scaling it to unicorn status within just over a year, and previously sold his first company, AccessBell, to India’s Tata Group.

A Stanford AI researcher and occasional lecturer, Josh has blended tech, entrepreneurship, and big-name partnerships into a career full of lessons that agency owners can apply to their own journey.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The power of just asking.

• Should we be worried about AI?

• Why the human element still wins.

• When AI shows empathy.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Building Big, Fast (and What Comes After)

Josh’s first exit was AccessBell, acquired by Tatai Group. Then came Autograph, the NFT platform co-founded with connections in the entertainment industry that quickly attracted celebrities and athletes like Tom Brady. The company went unicorn in about a year, proof that timing, partnerships, and execution can fuel explosive growth.

But Josh is quick to admit that pace sets a dangerous bar. When he launched Coframe, progress felt slower. The natural question arises: why am I not going as fast as I did last time? For any agency owner who’s had one “big win,” the fear of never matching that level again is real. For Josh, it comes down to stop chasing vanity metrics and focusing on the real value you’re creating. The long burn, when tied to a larger vision, often builds a stronger foundation.

The Power of Just Asking

One of the best stories from Josh’s Autograph journey was how Tom Brady got involved. It was a simple conversation, made possible because a co-founder’s family knew Brady. They took a shot, asked for a call, and suddenly, an NFL legend wasn’t just an investor—he was a co-founder.

They were, of course, very lucky, but the lesson for Josh was that you’ll never land your dream client (or partner) if you don’t step up to bat. Too many agencies convince themselves certain clients are “out of reach,” when in reality, decision-makers are more approachable than you think. Even the busiest people have time for the right conversation if you show up as a person, not a pitch machine.

Separating Yourself from Your Business Identity

With all these exits, Josh is still struggling with the identity crisis that comes with selling or stepping away from a company. Like Jason back when he sold his agency, Josh felt like he’d sold his soul and is still wrestling with how to separate being a tech founder from just being Josh.

Your business is not your identity, as performance coach Todd Herman (the guy behind Kobe Bryant’s “Black Mamba” alter ego) helped Jason understand. You’re not an “agency owner” by identity. You’re a creator, innovator, and strategist. Those traits travel with you into whatever you do next. Lose the label, keep the essence.

Fighting the Metrics Spiral

Every agency owner knows the feeling: dashboards screaming that you’re 30% down from last month, the creeping panic that you’re “slipping.” Josh admits he’s guilty of chasing these vanity metrics too, and it’s exhausting. The problem is that short-term sprints cloud the long-term vision.

But focusing only on the long-term isn’t right either. You can’t sit back dreaming and stop executing. Josh calls it a balance game. Some days require in-the-weeds execution. Other days call for pulling up to 30,000 feet and resetting the vision. And finding ways to get into that higher-level thinking state is crucial.

Finding Flow and Big Picture Clarity

One of Josh’s surprising hacks for perspective is the float tank, a sensory deprivation chamber where you float weightless in silence. He describes it as being suspended between sleep and wakefulness, giving him the clarity to see the forest instead of the trees. For him, a float every couple of months resets his ability to think deeply.

This lucid dreaming state allows him to consciously control his thought process, which is hard to do on a day-to-day basis. There are different ways to achieve this “flow state” like flying planes or running, where focus on the task at hand frees the brain to process ideas in the background. The lesson for agency owners is that you need intentional “out of the weeds” time. Whether it’s floating, running, or flying, find your version of the float tank.

Should We Be Worried About AI?

Where is AI really going, and should agencies be worried? Josh approaches the subject with cautious optimism. He admits there are possible negative outcomes—whole essays have been written about the risks—but he believes society still has control of its destiny. Governance, adaptation, and human ingenuity will help us navigate the “intelligence explosion” ahead.

For agency owners, that perspective matters. The fear-driven narrative (“AI will replace us all”) misses the more useful question: how do we adapt to stay ahead? Josh’s view is that AI will become a force multiplier, but only for those who deeply understand their craft first. At Coframe, he leads his team with the mantra: “first we are artisans, then we are automators.”

Josh encourages his team to master processes as humans before trying to automate them. An artisan, he says, is someone who not only performs a task with taste and skill but can also teach it to an apprentice. If you can teach it, you can usually train AI to do it too.

This is a powerful framework for agencies. Too many people treat AI as a magic shortcut, asking it to “do the thing” without knowing what “the thing” really requires. But if you’ve built the human expertise first, AI becomes like a hyper-capable apprentice, great at code generation, design variations, or crunching vast amounts of data, but still lacking the higher-level strategy and creative ideation that only humans can bring.

Why the Human Element Still Wins

Lots of people are already trying to launch “AI-only agencies.” This is a mistake. Clients don’t just want data or deliverables; they want connection, guidance, and trust. Even as AI accelerates execution, the human side, like the ability to understand a client, guide their decisions, and translate insights into strategy, remains irreplaceable.

This is especially true when clients don’t know what to ask. Tools may say, “Ask me anything,” but most business owners don’t even know where to start. That’s where the agency earns its keep: by framing the right questions and then leveraging AI to deliver smarter, faster answers.

AI Limitations on Emotion and Empathy

Empathy remains the most valuable and, so far, irreplaceable element that AI cannot afford clients, and where human intervention continues to be necessary. However, as these models get more and more aligned, clients are starting to see cases where the AI is able to show empathy for your situation. For instance, Jason recently tested AI with his own medical challenges. After foot surgery complications, he uploaded photos of his wound to an AI tool and was surprised at how sympathetic the responses felt. It wasn’t just giving data—it was offering encouragement, warnings, and even emergency advice when he tested it with old images.

Josh had his own example: experimenting with fasting while using AI to predict weight loss. The model gave estimates but also warned him about the risks and refused to encourage unsafe behavior. Modern models are being trained not just for accuracy but to reflect human values, to ensure they’re aligned with human interests.

Balancing AI Alignment With Performance

This fine-tuning process with newer AI models makes them more positive and empathetic. But there’s a trade-off: aligned models can lose some raw performance on benchmarks.

For agencies, this means two things:

• AI tools will continue evolving in personality and usefulness.

• The best results will still come from humans who know how to wield them—pairing empathy, strategy, and creativity with AI’s speed and scale.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you ever run two agencies at once? What if splitting your brand was the smartest way to protect and grow both?

Today’s featured guest spotted a booming opportunity in a regulated market—but knew that advertising those services alongside his work for conservative and tech clients could hurt his existing agency. His solution? Launch a separate brand. The move paid off as the regulated market surged during the pandemic.

He shares what it’s like to manage rapid growth, why he built a true people-first culture from day one, and how he stays optimistic even when agency life gets messy.

Greg Peters is the founder of 4B Marketing and Hybrid Marketing in Denver, Colorado. 4B focuses on tech, energy, and government sectors, while Hybrid serves regulated markets—most notably the cannabis industry. A former tech sales pro turned serial entrepreneur, Greg’s journey into agency ownership may have been accidental, but what’s not accidental is how quickly he scaled. They hit $1M in revenue in their second year — and his people-first philosophy became the secret weapon behind his rapid growth.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he chose to run two agencies.

• Growing to $1 million in just two years.

• Growing during the pandemic thanks to a controversial niche.

• Staying positive when agency life gets messy.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Running Two Agencies for Two Very Different Worlds

Greg didn’t set out to run two agencies. The split happened because of the cannabis side of the business. 4B’s conservative government and tech clients wouldn’t exactly appreciate a cannabis case study on the homepage. So Hybrid was born to serve the regulated, fast-growing cannabis market without spooking the more traditional side.

This approach also positioned both agencies to thrive in their respective niches without brand confusion. For agency owners wondering when is it time to create new brands, separate brands aren’t always about chasing new markets—they can be about protecting existing ones. If your positioning or client mix creates brand tension, a spin-off can give you room to grow in both spaces.

From Accidental Agency Owner to $1M in Two Years

Greg’s path was a mix of corporate burnout and entrepreneurial curiosity. After years in tech sales and a detour into solar energy, he realized the big-company grind wasn’t for him. So he launched a go-to-market consultancy for telecom.. Once creative work started flowing in—and his team started growing—he embraced the agency model.

The real jump happened when he let go. In year two, Greg went from $600K to $1M by putting the right people in the right seats and empowering them to run their own “business units” within the agency.

This is a shift most agency owners agree is vital to see true growth. However, it’s usually uncomfortable and it takes time to make the decision to go all in. Greg made the leap quickly inspired by Richard Branson’s philosophy in The Virgin Way. Years before starting the agency and as he read the book, he had already decided his mantra as a business owner should be putting people first and thus the people will put the client first. The result was a faster scale without burning out.

The Pandemic Pivot: Cannabis Keeps Growing

While many agencies hit pause in 2020, Greg’s cannabis clients went into overdrive. With consumers stuck at home (and shopping local), demand spiked. That meant more competition, and suddenly the different cannabis providers needed more marketing to stand out. Hybrid Marketing doubled down on local search, “near me” campaigns, and brand differentiation—keeping clients top-of-mind while the industry boomed.

For agency owners, this is a masterclass in following the growth. Greg didn’t predict cannabis would save the year, but he positioned his agency to move quickly when the opportunity showed up. Sometimes the best growth strategy is staying close to your clients’ markets and being ready to ride the wave.

When the Org Chart Backfires

Not every growth move is a win. One of Greg’s biggest lessons came from rolling out an org chart he thought would streamline things—only to find it created confusion for clients and tension among the team. It was a gut punch, but also a turning point.

He learned to check himself and remember this is only his first agency and there’s still much to learn. Luckily, he was quick to strip out the toxicity created by that moment because culture eats strategy for breakfast. The goal isn’t just to have a structure, it’s to have one that actually works for your team and your clients.

Staying Positive When Agency Life Gets Messy

Greg has always naturally found himself on the more optimistic side of life. But his optimism isn’t naive—it’s built on grit, a strong support system, and relentless curiosity. From his wife’s early encouragement (“It’ll be okay,” even when the bank account said otherwise) to his own belief in learning every day, Greg credits mindset as much as skill for his success.

For Greg, your network truly is your net worth and the more you can talk to people with the aim of creating a positive impact—whether that is on the financial business or helping somebody find a job or connecting them to a resource that'll help them—you put a lot of good stuff out into the universe without expectation, you'll get it back.

Finally, curiosity is the most valuable trait an agency owner can have. Read widely, talk to people in and outside your industry, and always be asking, “What if?” It’s that curiosity that fuels innovation, keeps you ahead of trends, and helps you navigate the inevitable ups and downs.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What happens when the agency you’ve built is just… stuck? Or when you hit a revenue ceiling, lose a major client, and start wondering if you’ve been playing the wrong game entirely? Those moments either break you or become the pivot points that redefine everything.

In this episode, you’ll hear from an agency owner who’s lived through the grind growing his agency from scratch, riding out recessions, choosing a niche that would help him get out of “no man’s land”. He’ll discuss the strategic bet that broke through plateaus, why he still refuses to hire a COO, and the million-dollar risk that could have sunk him but ended up being a worthwhile bet on his vision.

Alex Membrillo is the founder and CEO of Cardinal Digital Marketing, a 100-person specialist agency in healthcare performance marketing. Based in Atlanta, Alex launched Cardinal 16 years ago fresh out of college driven by equal parts ambition and desperation. Over the years, he’s navigated economic downturns, client churn, plateaus, and tough hiring markets, ultimately transforming it from a generalist digital shop into a niche powerhouse serving multi-site medical and dental groups nationwide.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Riding out recessions.

• Breaking plateaus and choosing a niche.

• Why he still prefers not hiring a COO.

• Alex’s million-dollar bet on himself.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Starting from Scratch (and a Hospital Room)

Alex didn’t start Cardinal with a polished business plan or a stack of VC cash — he started it the day after his first child was born. After watching his dad’s business nearly collapse thanks to a terrible SEO agency, Alex vowed to do better. With a fraternity brother on board and the confidence of having built a website once at sixteen, they left the hospital, started cold-calling local businesses, and selling websites.

That first chapter didn’t exactly go as planned. The websites flopped, but an SEO win for a kayak tour company gave them the confidence (and proof) they needed to double down on search. From there, they expanded into paid ads and built a reputation on a simple promise: If we suck, we’ll give you your money back. In the wild west of 2009 SEO, when big agencies were scrambling to go “digital” overnight, this direct, performance-focused approach gave them an edge.

Riding Out Recessions & Staying Hands-On

Recessions shaped Alex’s early leadership style. In 2009, big agencies were struggling, but lean, hungry digital-first shops could move faster and win clients. That meant Alex was doing it all—account managing 20 clients, selling new business, running QuickBooks, and hiring unpaid interns just to keep things moving.

In those early days, generalists are gold. If you’re too small for deep specialization, having people who can juggle SEO, PPC, and client management was critical. Even now, with a bigger team, Alex stays close to clients—spending hours each week on calls. To him, the job never ends, and the size of the clients is the only thing that’s changed thus far. Hence, staying in the work keeps his perspective sharp.

Breaking Plateaus by Choosing a Niche

By 2016, Cardinal had hit a wall at around $3.5M in revenue. At that stage, he realized what he had wasn’t really a business. You’re just a very good operator that probably has one or two big clients. The problem is that if those clients leave, as it happened to him when he was around $4 million, then you’re down to zero again.

They’d grown by targeting four sectors—higher ed, home services, healthcare, and legal—which did help propel the agency. However, growth stalled again at $7–8M.

Then COVID hit, and Alex decided to stop playing the “variety” game. Inspired by Jim Collins’ Hedgehog Concept, he asked: What can we be the best in the world at? What drives our economic engine? What do we actually love doing? The answer was healthcare.

They rebranded, rewrote their site, published thought leadership, and even released a book to claim their spot in the niche. They didn’t fire old clients—they just stopped marketing to non-healthcare prospects and let those accounts naturally roll off. Alex does wish he would’ve also kept a bit of focus on higher ed, another sector where the agency really shined. Nonetheless, the bet paid off: a laser focus on healthcare has helped them grow faster, build deeper expertise, and win larger multi-site provider clients.

Why Alex Still Doesn’t Have a COO

Alex firmly believes you can grow out of most problems, so every time he felt the agency was stuck, he went right back to improving their marketing, getting bigger clients, and hiring talented people. It’s a simple formula that has kept working for him throughout the years. However, here’s where he breaks from conventional wisdom: even at 100+ employees, Cardinal has no head of operations or finance. Everyone, including him, is billable.

“I’ve made the mistake 83 times of listening to experts who say ‘Go hire a COO,’” Alex says. In his view, it’s just not worth it at that point in your growth. “Do as much as you can as the owner. Have all departments report to you. You don’t need middle management pushing paper. You need smart, talented people actually doing the work.”

That lean structure only works if you market hard and keep new business flowing. It gives you the freedom to walk away from bad-fit clients and double down on growth opportunities.

AI as Your Board of Advisors

Agency owners like Alex, who see no need to hire a COO or CMO while they can still manage things themselves, can now turn to AI as a resourceful solution, treating it like an in-house advisory board.

Like fellow agency owner Chris Dreyer—who built custom GPTs for CFO and COO roles and used AI to better understand the business acquisition process—Alex is now considering feeding his P&L and monthly reports into AI to spot trends, explain fluctuations, and even validate assumptions.

The takeaway: you don’t need expensive consultants or bloated leadership teams to get strategic insight. With the right prompts, you can cut through the noise and focus on execution, the part AI can’t do for you (yet).

The Million-Dollar Bet on Himself

One of Alex’s biggest turning points came when he bought out his co-founder. His partner had lost interest in client work, and Alex saw no way forward without full control. After a year of negotiation, he signed a deal that left him $1M in debt.

For three years, he funneled $35,000 a month from profits to pay it off, losing sleep and enduring massive stress. In hindsight, it was worth it, but it took “probably 30 years off my life,” Alex says. Still, it was a defining moment—proving to himself he was willing to bet big on his own vision.

Thought Leadership as a Growth Engine

Cardinal’s healthcare niche dominance didn’t just happen—it was engineered. Alex leveraged thought leadership to own the space. From content and events to industry-specific messaging, they positioned themselves as the go-to choice for multi-site healthcare providers.

He’s quick to point out this approach has pros and cons, but if you want his playbook, he’s happy to share it—just reach out on LinkedIn.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you growing your agency with the goal of selling it one day? More importantly, are you taking the right steps now to ensure it’s actually worth what you think it is?

Today’s featured guest has built and sold multiple agencies over the years, gaining hard-earned insights into the process. He shares what you need to know to prepare your agency for sale, the potential pitfalls and opportunities with non-competes and earnouts, and whether hiring a broker is really worth it.

If selling your agency is on your horizon, or even just a long-term possibility, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you maximize your valuation and avoid costly mistakes.

Sean Hakes has been building and selling digital marketing agencies since the early 2000’s back when ‘SEO’ wasn’t a household term and websites were still coded in tables.. He’s grown agencies from small side hustles into multi-million-dollar operations, navigated multiple acquisitions, and learned the hard way how to structure a deal and when to walk away.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Getting savvier for his second agency sale.

• Not taking the highest bid, but picking the right buyer.

• Getting back to the game after a restrictive non-compete.

• Buying back his old agency.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How a Major Mistake Started His Agency Journey

Most agency owners start by accident, but in Sean’s case, he accidentally broke a website.

While working for another company, he took down their site and had to learn HTML on the fly to fix it. That crash course turned into a curiosity for web design, which turned into a small SEO and design shop in Denver around 2001–2002, back when keyword stuffing and white text on a white background actually worked.

Sean’s first agency wasn’t huge—three or four people, a few hundred grand in revenue—but their search visibility was strong. That alone was enough to attract an out-of-state buyer. The deal wasn’t life-changing money, and looking back he thinks (since he didn’t know anything about valuations) that he probably gave it away, but it was enough to get Sean hooked on the idea of building, growing, and eventually selling agencies.

The “Do It Better” Second Act

After dabbling in landscaping, trucking, and even diamond brokering businesses following the sale of his first agency, Sean realized marketing was still his zone of genius. This time, he teamed up with a sales-savvy partner. Sean handled operations; his partner brought in a big book of business.

That agency scaled to about $3 million in revenue before they decided to sell—but not before learning a hard truth about valuations: top-line revenue doesn’t mean much without profit.

When they first went to a broker, they were shocked to get a $100k valuation. Why so low? No recurring contracts, thin margins, and too much discretionary spending. So they spent the next year tightening up—signing contracts, cutting waste, and boosting profit.

It’s a lesson many agency owners dreaming of selling at some point have to learn. You may think that making millions in topline revenue means your business is worth a lot, and then you learn there are many factors that determine that price, and profit is a pretty big one in the agency space.

Understanding Deal Structures (and Picking the Right Buyer)

The second sale was a much more strategic process. Sean and his partner used a broker, entertained multiple offers, and discovered there are a million ways to structure a deal. The one they chose was about half cash up front, with the rest split between owner financing and an earnout.

Here’s the kicker: they didn’t take the highest bid. Instead, they picked a private equity group that specialized in their industry and cared about their team and clients. They passed on flashier offers, like one from a New York club owner, because they valued long-term success over a quick payday.

They also learned brokers are very expensive. In fact, if he could do it all over again with the knowledge he has now, Sean wouldn’t use a broker.

Playing the Earnout Game (and Winning It)

Earnouts can be a trap, designed to look great on paper but structured so you’ll never hit the target. Sean and his partner weren’t having it. They stayed on the sales team, volunteered their time, and treated the earnout like a commission plan they could win.

The trick for them was conservative projections. Instead of promising buyers a wild 50–100% growth rate (and setting themselves up to miss), they targeted a steady 10% growth. This set the earnout bar at a realistic level—and they smashed it.

They even negotiated out their broker’s cut of the earnout once they knew they’d hit it, keeping 100% of the upside.

From Restrictive Non-Competes to Freedom Deals

Sean’s second agency sale came with a brutal seven-year non-compete—likely unenforceable, but restrictive enough to stress him out. Five years in, low on reserves, he approached the buyer with a proposal: let him start another company without poaching their clients.

Instead of a fight, they offered to partner with him, gave their blessing, and even returned his old domains. That experience stood in stark contrast to another sale where the non-compete was simply, “Stay out of our 30-mile radius.”

Takeaway: Non-compete terms can vary wildly. Negotiate them up front, and remember that relationships matter long after the ink is dry.

The Cashless Merger That Led to a Full Cash Exit

In 2011, Sean started another agency, Altitude. Five years later, he merged it with another company in a cashless deal to boost revenue and valuation. Within a year, an unexpected buyer came along with a full-multiple, all-cash offer—and only wanted one person to stay on.

Sean took the deal, pocketed the money, and moved to the beach in South Carolina to run a fishing charter. “The old saying about boats, being happiest when buying and selling them, is true,” he laughs—but the experience checked a personal dream off his list.

Buying Back His Old Agency

In a very full-circle moment, the company that had bought Sean’s agency in an earlier deal came back to him in trouble. Mismanagement, bad outsourcing, and unhappy clients had turned it into a sinking ship.

Sean and his new partner jumped on the opportunity, bought it back for a fraction of what they’d sold it for, rehired many of the original team, and turned it around within months.

Sometimes the best acquisition target is one you already know inside and out—especially if you can buy it back at a discount and restore its former glory.

Sean’s Advice to Agency Owners Thinking About a Sale

Don’t take the first “decent” offer. The buyer pool is bigger than you think—negotiate.

Be strategic with brokers. Great ones exist, but remember that they get paid if you sell, so their advice may be biased.

Control your earnout terms. Conservative projections give you room to exceed expectations and actually cash in.

Relationships last longer than deals. Today’s buyer could be tomorrow’s partner — or seller.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What happens when you stop chasing $30K projects and start solving real problems for smaller clients in a way that actually works?

Today’s featured guest had been building $32,000 websites for mid-market companies. On paper, it looked like success. But in reality, he felt stuck—unfulfilled and back in a corporate-style grind that didn’t align with the kind of work or life he truly wanted.

When he took a step back, he realized something important: the clients he really wanted to serve were already reaching out. These were smaller, $300K businesses with many of the same challenges agencies see across the board—but without the bloated complexity.

So he made a bold pivot. He simplified his offer, created a productized service, and returned to his roots—helping people in a way that felt meaningful, scalable, and sustainable. The result? Less stress, more impact, and a business model built around freedom, not friction.

Nate Freedman is the founder of TechPro Marketing and creator of MSP Sites, a productized service built specifically for Managed IT Service Providers. After years of working in high-ticket agency engagements, Nate made a bold pivot—focusing on volume, automation, and scalable coaching for small IT firms. That shift helped him grow from a $20K/month agency to a $2.5M+ business serving over 100 clients with a tight, dialed-in model.

We’ll explore his early missteps, the aha moment that changed everything, and the system he built to serve a niche audience at scale—without losing his soul.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Pivoting to MPSs as the perfect fit.

• Creating a low-ticket offer.

• Productizing with a purpose.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Impostor Syndrome and the Accidental CEO

Nate’s background wasn’t in marketing strategy or enterprise consulting. He was a self-taught internet nerd who cut his teeth writing affiliate articles and selling photo recovery software online.

He studied accounting, not realizing when he picked that career that being an online marketer was an option. Right out of college, his first job was at an accounting firm, an experience he promptly hated. He felt exposed and like a fish out of water.

This is a feeling he recognized years later when, the more his agency took on large, complex clients like Salesforce, the more he felt like a fraud. He was working with large corporations and felt like an impostor. It just wasn’t the right fit for him.

“I was putting on a kind of a facade. Like, I was pretending to be someone I wasn’t… and it just wasn’t me.”

That realization drove Nate back to his roots: helping people who reminded him of himself.

From Big Clients to Bigger Misalignment

Nate didn’t start small. Like many digital agency owners, his early focus was on winning big projects—$10K, $20K, even $32K website and marketing packages. And sure, those checks looked great at first… until a very good client sent him the dreaded email:

“Nate, when are we going to generate leads from this?”

That one question—posed by a well-meaning client already $32K in—flipped the switch. Nate realized that delivering work isn’t the same as delivering results. The more he moved upmarket, the more he felt like he was back in the corporate world he hated. High-maintenance clients. Long sales cycles. No real alignment.

He wasn’t building relationships. He was building a façade.

Finding His People: MSPs as the Perfect Fit

Nate’s breakthrough came when he niched down into the MSP (Managed Service Provider) space. These were former tech guys turned business owners—scrappy, smart, and stuck in the same ways agency owners often are.

They didn’t need $30K marketing retainers. They needed help generating leads, converting visitors, and staying in business.

Nate made a gutsy move. He ditched his high-ticket proposals and started sending BombBomb videos to leads who had previously ghosted him:

“You turned down my $20,352 proposal. Here’s my new one: $2,000 a month, and I’ll help you generate leads. I don’t even know exactly what I’ll do yet. I just want to help you grow.”

That transparency worked. Five early adopters signed on, and Nate never looked back.

Scaling a Low-Ticket, High-Impact Model

What started as a simplified offer became a flywheel. Over seven years, Nate scaled his agency to over 100 monthly clients, all paying around $4,200/month. But growth at that level brings churn.

With just 3% monthly churn, he’d have to invest more on sales and onboarding and close three new clients a month just to break even.

However, focusing on growing this way meant turning away 75% of leads who were not at least $1 million in revenue that could afford the expense.

And most of the businesses reaching out to his agency were at 200K-300K. Nate felt he could service those clients without a big investment in human resources.

This sparked the next evolution: MSP Sites.

The new offer targeted those MSPs doing $200K–$300K/year. These folks couldn’t pay $4K/month… but they desperately needed help.

So Nate reverse-engineered a low-cost, high-value offer that started at $200/month and eventually grew to include:

• Custom-designed websites

• Human chat agents

• CRM and booking automations

• On-demand courses and live office hours

• Weekly coaching and a client-only community

He went from being “just another agency” to becoming an all-in-one marketing partner for small MSPs—at a price they could actually say “hell yes” to.

Productizing with Purpose: Lessons from the Pivot

This shift to a productized offer came with unexpected lessons, as Nate was confronted with a question from his past work making $32K websites or a $200 website: “Where are the leads?”

He realized that whether he was going after the high end or low end of the market, he still had to provide an end result for clients. Low ticket doesn’t mean low impact. He has to answer that question while still providing an affordable service, so he started layering in automation, coaching, and a structured experience This slightly raised the price to $300/month, but clients not felt like they were part of a premium program.

Nate wanted to help clients not just have a website, but also generate leads, drive traffic, and close the deal. By adding live calls, email support, and a live event, Nate turned MSP Sites into more than a tool—it became a tribe.

Once the service was upgraded and clients could get their website set up even faster, the problem was that now they all looked the same. Nate knew his clients deserved better, so he removed the one-click deploy and now ensures each website is custom-designed to look amazing. Of course, this also led to a rise of the set up fee, but clients were more than happy to pay for a better design.

Finally, on-demand courses and live office hours were the finishing touch for his new offer and he was finally helping clients much more and building the business he really enjoys.

Market Share > Margins (When You’re Playing the Long Game)

At some point, most agency owners fantasize about selling. Nate’s no different—but he’s thinking a few moves ahead. Instead of relying on private equity, his bet is on strategic acquisition by a larger company in his own niche.

“The best multiple I’m going to get is from someone who wants more market share.”

That’s why he’s focused on volume at the low end. Every small client is a slice of market share. And if you can build community, coaching, and brand loyalty into your offer, you’re not just a service provider—you’re infrastructure.

The Next Frontier: Launching a Mastermind

With 300+ paying clients, Nate’s building something many agency owners should be thinking about but don’t: a mastermind for your niche.

Why?

Because clients already trust you. They’re already getting value. And when you get them in a room together—virtually or physically—magic happens.

Better yet, Nate doesn’t need to be the guru. The best masterminds don’t revolve around one person—they’re facilitated, not taught. When the room is full of practitioners, the value is in the conversations.

Do Right By People (and You’ll Win)

Scaling isn’t just about tech, pricing models, or marketing hacks. It’s about people.

Nate credits a huge part of his growth to partnering with E2M Solutions, which removed the HR complexity of managing a dev team in-house. More importantly, it aligned with his core value:

“Do right by people. If you do that, no one’s going to say anything bad about you. Even when you make mistakes.”

It’s simple, but in a crowded industry full of overpromising and under-delivering, that integrity stands out—and scales.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you stuck chasing new clients while ignoring the goldmine in your past customer list? Does your agency feast on projects but starve for predictable revenue? Today’s featured guest knows what it’s like to hit a growth ceiling and being tired of the one-and-done client hamster wheel.

He shares how he pivoted his agency after becoming a HubSpot partner, why he turned to project-based work after customer habits changed following the pandemic, and how he got out of the dreaded “no man’s land”.

Eric Baum is the CEO and founder of Bluleadz, a HubSpot Onboarding and Implementation Agency dedicated to transforming the way companies market, sell, and service their customers through the power of the HubSpot platform. He’ll discuss his cash flow challenges, pricing mistakes that almost tanked the business, and how EOS helped him escape “no man’s land.”

If you're stuck in the fulfillment hamster wheel or scaling past $5M feels like pushing a boulder uphill... listen up.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Reinventing his agency as a HubSpot partner.

• The real scaling struggle: cash flow.

• Why project-based doesn’t mean profitless.

• Strategic partnerships are the future.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Accidental Founder, Intentional CEO

Back in the Yellow Pages era, Eric was running two service-based franchises and needed a better way to market them. He brought marketing in-house for PPC, SEO, web dev, and that hire didn’t just turn things around. It turned into a new business.

Fast-forward a few months, and other franchise owners across the country started asking for help. Eric spun that in-house team into an agency, and had 50 clients out of the gate.

As many owners before have admitted to, Eric started out charging way too low—$250 to $500/month.

“I don’t know how I didn’t go broke right out of the gate,” he laughs. And if you’ve ever undercharged in the early days, you’ll feel that one deep in your soul.

Reinventing the Agency (and Himself) Around HubSpot

The turning point came when Eric discovered HubSpot and pivoted Bluleadz to become a certified partner. That’s when the “real” agency began, as he started to study the industry and figure out what he had to do to be profitable, take care of his team, and do it without necessarily doing all the sales work all the time.

From there, Eric leaned into strategy, profitability, and systems. He stopped trying to be the everything guy and started building an agency that didn’t need him in the trenches every day.

Fifteen years later, his agency isn’t just thriving. It’s structured, profitable, and on track to hit 8 figures.

Life in “No Man’s Land” – The $1M to $5M Plateau

After fifteen years in the industry and getting closer to the eight-figure mark, one of the things that most surprised Eric was getting stuck in the ugly middle: the zone between $1M and $5M where a lot of agency dreams go to die. Many call it “no man’s land,” and if you’ve been there, you know the pain.

“It was up, down, up, down,” he says. “I’d grow, then lose key employees. Revenue would spike, then tank. I kept asking, ‘What am I doing wrong?’”

The answer: a lack of structure.

So about nine years ago, Eric implemented EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System). That gave his agency the foundation it needed—vision, accountability, and a cadence to scale. It didn’t fix everything overnight, but it got the business out of reaction mode and into growth mode.

The Real Scaling Struggle: Cash Flow

Even with all that success, Eric’s biggest constraint today isn’t clients or talent. It’s cash.

In the agency world, sometimes you can grow so fast that you can actually outpace your ability to fund it. As Eric explains, “Receivables stack up. You can’t hire, build, or invest without the cash reserves in place to hit the down terms.”

For instance, just this year his agency was down 20% compared to last year because of all the uncertainty for businesses.

Sound familiar?

So far, Eric's solution has been airtight payment terms. They moved away from waiting on client deliverables and toward milestone-based billing. They typically charge:

• 50% upfront

• 25% after month one

• 25% at month two or fixed date

Not based on deliverables. Based on time. Why? Because waiting on clients kills momentum (and your margin). “We used to wait months to get that final 50%. Now we’re often 100% paid before a project is even done.” Moral of the story? Set clear terms and stop letting clients hold your agency hostage.

Project-Based Doesn’t Mean Profitless If You Structure It Right

Five years ago, 85% of Bluleadz’s revenue came from retainers.

Then COVID hit.

Buying behavior shifted fast. Clients wanted results without long-term commitments. So Eric pivoted hard into project work—today, 80–85% of their revenue comes from one-off HubSpot onboarding and implementation projects.

That means 50–75 new customers per month, each on 30 to 90-day timelines.

The lesson: project-based doesn't have to mean chaos - if you systemize delivery and payment.

However, Eric does admit he and his team had been failing to recapture clients for a second or third project. “We were just focused on getting new clients through the door.”

Instead of nurturing clients post-delivery, they handed off the project and moved on. Meanwhile, past clients drifted—only to come back a year or two later in total chaos saying, “We lost our HubSpot guy. Can you help?”

The opportunity cost was massive.

They are currently working on recapturing these relationships. By reselling past clients, his agency could double or triple revenue in a year.

The Triple-Team Model: Sales, CSM, Implementation

In their efforts to start creating more lifetime value for customers, Eric’s agency introduced Customer Success Managers (CSMs)—not just to check in, but to hunt for value.

CSMs dig into each client’s needs post-project, surface upsell or cross-sell opportunities, and feed them back to the sales team. Now they’re farming the base, increasing LTV, and stacking wins without chasing cold leads.

This third new role adds a new layer to his team’s structure, which he now breaks down as:

• Salespeople close net-new deals and join key milestone calls.          

• Implementation Specialists own delivery and are the client’s main point of contact.

• CSMs sit above delivery, watching for success gaps, retention issues, and upsell opportunities.

“Salespeople are hunters, not farmers. Trying to make them farm didn't work. So we changed the model.”

This layered structure gives clients clarity, keeps teams focused, and ensures no growth opportunity slips through the cracks.

Strategic Partnerships Are the Future

Another key reason Bluleadz is scaling so quickly is partnerships.

They're one of HubSpot’s top onboarding partners, and at one point this partnership drove most of his agency’s net new leads. More recently, however, as they start to expand their efforts to engage past clients, only 40% of their leads come from HubSpot, while 30% comes from existing customers, and another 30% from their inbound marketing efforts, other strategic partners, and referrals.

This makes for a more balanced pipeline: “Inbound, outbound, and strategic partnerships”. Those are the three pillars in the Playbook. You’ve got ‘em dialed in.

As for Eric, he’s all in on strategic partnerships, which he considers to be the way of the future.

The One Thing Eric Would Do Differently

If he could go back and give his younger self advice on agency ownership, Eric would say “Let go faster.”

He held on too long to sales, finance, client services… all of it. And every time he finally let go, the agency grew again.

Today, Eric has zero departmental responsibilities. His job is vision, strategy, and leadership—and it’s paying off.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Agency owners often stay stuck in delivery because they fear stepping back will tank what’s working. Brent Weaver shares how he transitioned from being the “product” to leading a 300-person agency without burning it all down—and why you need to step up if you want to scale.

What You’ll Learn

• Why staying “in delivery” caps your growth
• How to stop being the product and build leaders around you
• How to set a real “North Star” so your team stops bugging you
• Why you need to know your numbers and stop blaming seasonality
• The mindset shift from VFR (gut decisions) to IFR (data-driven scale)

Key Takeaways

• Your agency won’t scale if you’re stuck in delivery. You must step back and coach leaders if you want freedom and growth.
• Clarity kills chaos. Set a clear vision so your team can act without needing you in every decision.
• Use the 1-3-1 method (1 problem, 3 options, 1 recommendation) to build leaders and stop being the fixer.
• Know your numbers. Seasonality is often a scapegoat for pipeline problems you can fix.
• Every change costs churn. If your change won’t grow you by at least 20%, it’s not worth the churn.
• Stop flying VFR. Use data to run your agency if you want to scale without chaos.

Are you still viewed as a ‘product’ of your agency? Maybe you’ve considered stepping back from the day-to-day but are terrified you’ll break what’s working. Our featured guest is the newly appointed CEO of E2M Solutions and he shares what it’s been like going from being the main “product” at an agency he built and grew, to stepping in to run a 300-person white-label agency.

From losing the fear of breaking what already worked to accepting it’s better if he’s usually not in client call, he explains how he’s grown comfortable in his new role: coaching the core leadership team, amplifying culture, and making sure hundreds of projects and thousands of tasks get executed well. Brent’s journey is packed with lessons on what real leadership looks like when you’re ready to grow.

Brent Weaver is the CEO of E2M Solutions, a 300-person white-label agency helping digital agencies scale through web, digital marketing, and AI services. Before E2M, Brent founded and grew UGURUS, supporting agencies to niche, price, and position better. Now, instead of talking about scaling, he’s deep in the trenches doing it.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Stop being the product and build leaders around you

• How to set a real “North Star” so your team stops bugging you

• Why you need to know your numbers and stop blaming seasonality 

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From “Gainfully Unemployed” to Leading 300 People

A few months before stepping in at E2M, Brent was living the dream: building a halfpipe in his barn and enjoying long walks on his property. Then, he jumped back in, this time not to build a new business, but to lead a 300-person agency that already had a killer product, a strong culture, and a commitment to service.

Brent’s move is the dream scenario for many agency owners who’ve spent years in the grind. He joined a team that’s already winning and is in the process of figuring out how to take it to the next level without screwing it up.

However, running an operation that serves hundreds of clients and handles hundreds of projects every month, the stakes are bigger, the team is bigger, and the impact is bigger. It’s a different kind of pressure.

When You’re No Longer “The Product”

If you’re running a 5–20 person agency, you might feel like stepping up to a 300-person team would just mean 300 people interrupting you all day with Slack pings.

But Brent that’s not how it works at that level. If you want to scale, you have to stop being the product.

At UGURUS, Brent was often the one jumping on client calls to “fix it.” At E2M, he’s focused on coaching the core leadership team, amplifying culture, and making sure hundreds of projects and thousands of tasks get executed well without him being the bottleneck. As he explains, even though he loves speaking to clients, there probably shouldn’t be a situation where he HAS to jump on a call with them.

Brent believes agency owners should begin stepping back from daily agency operations once the team team grows to around 20 people. At this point, you should start to think about your business’s leadership structure, management structure, and spend more time thinking about the “middle” of the business vs. just the vision.

Take note: If you’re stuck in delivery and putting out fires, your agency won’t scale.

Vision: Your Agency’s North Star

If you’ve heard agency owners talk about the business “North Star,” you know how critical it is to set a clear vision your team can rally around.

Your vision doesn’t need to be some sappy paragraph you read before standups. It needs to be clear enough that everyone on your team can make decisions aligned with where you’re going without bugging you every five minutes.

At E2M, Brent and his team know exactly where they’re headed over the next three to five years—and every decision flows from that. This is true freedom to Brent. His vision of freedom is not one where he has lots of time off, but rather one where he can do his job as CEO without being micromanaged and can choose his path towards the agreed strategic objectives.

If you want to stop being the product at your agency and you still don’t have this clarity, your team will constantly come to you, expecting you to make every call. If you want to get out of that cycle, set your North Star. Then, overcommunicate it.

The 1-3-1 Method to Building Leaders

If you’re still solving every problem in your agency, try the 1-3-1 method Jason used:

• What’s the 1 problem you’re facing?

• What are 3 options you’ve considered?

• What’s the 1 you recommend?

Teach your team to think critically and solve their own problems, and you’ll stop being the default fixer. This is how you build leaders inside your agency instead of becoming the only adult in an adult daycare.

Don’t Let “Do No Harm” Paralyze You

For Brent, being a good leader means getting down to why things are working or not working at the agency, with the same level of detail whether things are working or not. As a leader, if you don’t have a firm grip on the business and why it’s going up, down, or staying the same, you can’t get a clear idea of how to improve the company or not damage what’s working.

New CEO’s often come in with the idea of “doing no harm” by changing things too much as they start. Think about it like this: Any meaningful change will cause about 20% churn. If the upside of your change isn’t at least 20% growth, it’s not worth it.

Don’t be afraid of making changes. Just remember that if you decide to change the pricing, pivot your offer, or build a new division, it better be worth the churn it will inevitably create.

This mindset frees you to take the swings that actually move your agency forward.

The Seasonality Cop-Out

If you truly have a firm grip on the business, you’ll also avoid the seasonality cop-out..

“Summer’s slow.” “Everyone’s on vacation.” “Budget freezes in Q4.”

We’ve all heard it, but as Brent learned at Digital Ocean (where you either knew your numbers or got roasted), seasonality isn’t causality.

If you see lead flow drop in the summer, don’t blame the weather.

Look deeper: Are you running events that drive leads earlier in the year but have no Q3 pipeline activity? Do your ad campaigns pause when the kids get out of school?

You don’t fix “seasonality” with wishful thinking. You fix it by identifying the root cause, putting numbers to the impact, and designing campaigns or partnerships to fill the gap.

If you want next June to be different, start planning now. Clarity over confusion wins every time.

Flying VFR vs. IFR: How Agency Owners Get Stuck

With both the interviewer and interviewee being licensed pilots, we of course got this banger analogy when talking about decision-making for agency owners:

• Visual Flight Rules (VFR): You fly by looking out the window, adjusting based on what you see.

• Instrument Flight Rules (IFR): You fly by instruments, allowing you to go further, faster, and more safely.

Most agencies operate under VFR, making gut decisions with limited data. This approach works when you’re small, but to scale, you need to fly IFR, building a data system that tells you what’s working, what’s not, and what needs fixing.

At E2M, Brent is shifting the company to operate on data, allowing them to scale smarter and make big moves (like building out their AI and Go High Level divisions) with confidence.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you working harder than ever, but still can’t turn your brain off—even on weekends? Today’s featured guest is one of the many agency owners who has found it hard to find the right balance to take care of himself as well as the business. Like many agency owners, he made the leap from building someone else’s business to finally building his own. But trading a cozy corporate job for the chaos of running an agency with dozens of clients wasn’t as easy as it looked.

He shares the real challenges of sales, why speed is still the secret to winning leads, and how he’s figuring out how to convert prospects who aren’t quite ready to buy. Most importantly, he opens up about the ongoing struggle to find the right balance between health, family, and keeping the agency growing.

RJ Huebert is the founder of HBT Digital, a Pittsburgh-based lead generation agency helping clients pull in quality leads using online ads that actually convert. After 11 years of climbing the corporate marketing ladder, RJ got tired of building someone else’s dream and decided to bet on himself—and it’s paying off.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he stopped building someone else’s dream.

• How speed wins in lead generation. Always be first to respond.

• Ways to nurture leads that are not ready to buy.

• Why boundaries and self care are more important now than ever.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Building Someone Else’s Empire? Here’s the Wake-Up Call

Like many agency owners before starting their own business, RJ was the corporate marketing guy building someone else’s business, getting them rich, while rising through the ranks and learning how to actually drive results with digital marketing. Also like many others, he hit a moment of questioning whether it was worth it after eleven years.

Sound familiar?

That’s when he decided it was time to test if people would actually pay him for these skills. He got some clients on the side, launched a 5K race company, and eventually opened his own digital marketing agency, proving that you can take your skills and build your own agency if you’re willing to start.

The Attribution Struggle He Faced as an Agency Client

From his experience hiring agencies on the corporate side, one of the biggest frustrations RJ encountered was the attribution nightmare. It wasn’t always easy to see where the lead came from and where they were at in the pipeline. This was some ten years ago, so every agency was siloed: SEO, PPC, outdoor, TV—and each claimed leads but no one could prove it.

And even today, with GA4, HighLevel, UTMs, and tag managers, the truth is:

“Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.”

We’re bombarded with data, but turning it into actionable insight is another story. RJ prefers to establish a baseline, track what matters, and avoid drowning in vanity metrics - like open rates—that don’t impact the client’s bottom line.

Why Speed to Lead Still Wins

Both RJ and Jason agree that speed to lead wins deals.

If you’re not calling leads while they’re still on your website you are likely losing opportunities. Just like you probably click on the first result in a Google search, whoever calls back first is going to win.

If your sales team is still waiting hours (or days) to follow up, you’re leaving money on the table.

Rethinking Nurture Sequences Without Being “That Guy”

Even if you’re not converting them right away, how are you nurturing those leads in a way that doesn’t feel like overkill? First of all, replace boring white papers with short, actionable videos that deliver instant value.

For example, Jason’s Budget Buster video helps prospects get budgets 99% of the time, creating immediate ROI and building trust. Follow that with another bite-sized value piece a few days later. Once leads warm up, move them to your newsletter list.

Have some lead magnets ready, like useful videos you can send each week to warm up that client. After that, you can move that client from the “warm-up” list to a newsletter list, so you can send them valuable content on a daily basis.

Sending daily value-packed emails to engaged subscribers actually increased their domain authority and engagement.

It’s about quality frequency, not spam. Think about what you’d want to receive yourself, not just what you want to send.

The Meta & Google Frustration We’re All Tired Of

Not even Meta is getting emails right, as they send multiple emails a day that don’t really add much value for clients. On top of that, their reps hardly ever provide the right solutions and are mainly focused on “spend more” strategies.

It’s a universal frustration for agency owners, who see Meta is calling clients directly trying to cut their agency out.

It’s one more reason why agencies need to protect their positioning, control client conversations, and not let the platforms dictate strategy.

From One Client to Twenty: The Real Agency Rollercoaster

What’s the hardest shift going from corporate to owning your agency? For RJ, it was going from one clear client you’re focusing on at one moment to having even 20 clients, plus “trying to get clients to pay you, to keep paying you, while finding new ones, and keeping them happy.”

Running an agency turned out to be way harder than he expected. Corporate can be robotic and boring, but on the bright side, you have one client: your boss. Lose that, and you’re done.

In the agency world, a client can fire you, but you’ve got 5, 10, or 20 others paying the bills. The flip side? You’re always on. Even when you’re “off,” your mind is stuck on proposals, scope creep, and that client’s weird Slack message at 10 pm. That’s one of the biggest challenges for RJ at the moment.

Setting Your Priorities Straight with The Right Systems

When it comes to taking care of yourself, your priorities should always be: Health, Family, Agency—In That Order.

However, too often agency owners get their priorities backwards. You have a zillion things you can and should be doing and choosing the priority is the challenge.

That balancing act gets easier once you build the right leadership team and put systems in place that pull you out of the weeds.

But agency owners often struggle to shut their brains off, leading to constant stress, scattered priorities, and burnout cycles that can wreck family time, health, and even your love for the business.

If you’re stuck in the chaos, it’s time to step back and prioritize what actually moves the needle in your agency.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What’s the most unexpected challenge you’ve faced as an agency owner? How did you handle it when things went sideways?

Agency life is full of curveballs, and the only way to keep your business alive is by maintaining perspective and resilience when the unexpected hits.

Today’s featured guest once thought he would lose all the progress he’d made with his agency when the state hit him with a surprise $10K sales tax bill he didn’t even know existed. But now, he looks back and laughs, recognizing that getting through it came down to trusting the right professionals and staying the course.

He firmly believes that keeping your business afloat for the long haul means remembering why clients hire you in the first place — and that focusing on the outcomes that matter is what builds trust and closes deals.

Pete Kleinjan is the founder and owner of Tiger29, an SEO agency that helps local small businesses achieve their sales goals. His agency isn’t a sprawling team of 50; it’s a small, sharp crew focused on what small business clients actually care about: more phone calls, more leads, more sales.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The real reason clients want SEO.

• A lesson on team + preparedness.

• Perspective & resilience when things go sideways.

•  Why you should focus on what won’t change.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Real Reason Clients Want SEO (And Why We Overcomplicate It)

Pete’s first job right out of college was doing credit card collection. It was awful but it trained him in being on the phone multiple hours a day having difficult conversations, which led to his next job selling wheelchair-accessible vans.

As a salesperson, he quickly realized the key to more sales wasn’t grinding harder—it was getting more qualified leads. After he communicated his drive to help bring in more leads, the company’s developer threw him a Wikipedia link to SEO, and Pete dove in, learned FTP, and started tweaking pages himself. That hands-on hunger turned into a full-fledged agency by 2009.

It’s a story he still tells prospects because he knows clients don’t want SEO; they want what SEO brings. They want sales, the Cadillac, the lakehouse dream—not rankings or traffic screenshots, and leading with that terminology could just push them away.

Pete urges agency owners to remember this because it speaks to what small business owners care about: “How do I get more of the customers I want?” When you lead with jargon, you lose your prospect. Lead with the transformation.

The Unexpected $10K Sales Tax Bill (And a Lesson on Team + Preparedness)

A couple of years into his agency, Pete received a letter from the state labeled “sales tax review” (not audit, but let’s be real—it was an audit). Turns out, in South Dakota, consulting services are taxable, and the state decided local SEO link-building and citation placement fell under “taxable consulting.” This little “surprise” ended with Pete writing a $10,000 check to the state.

For a moment, Pete considered fighting it and asked his attorney brother for advice. However, his brother put it in perspective for him: pay the $10K or pay a lawyer to sue and likely have the state fight you all the way to the Supreme Court. It wasn’t fun, but it was the best decision for his peace of mind.

For him, the big takeaway was: Hire a good bookkeeper and CPA who know your local tax nuances. You don’t want to be the expert in tax law, just like your clients shouldn’t have to be experts in SEO. Pete chose not to pass that bill back to his clients because it was his mistake, and it would be unfair. But it also taught him to be proactive in areas outside his zone of genius by building a team of experts who handle the boring (but crucial) details.

Perspective and Resilience When Things Go Sideways

Pete’s tax story caused sleepless nights at the time, but looking back, he laughs about it. Because here’s the hard truth about agency ownership: Money challenges, curveballs, and “surprise” bills are going to happen. Your ability to weather these storms without spiraling is what separates owners who build sustainable agencies from those who burn out.

When you’ve been in the game long enough, you realize it’s never all rainbows, and there’s always something around the corner that could trip you up. But when you remember why you’re in business—to build a life you love, not just a bigger agency—it becomes easier to shake off setbacks and focus on what matters: your health, your team, your freedom, and your ability to keep moving forward.

Focus on What Won’t Change

In a recent interview, Jeff Bezos was asked about how he thought things would change in five years. His answer was that instead of obsessing over what will change, he prefers focusing on what won’t change.

No matter what, clients will always want results. They’ll always want things on time. They’ll always want problems solved by real humans who care. Whether you’re using AI, TikTok or any other platform, those core truths will remain.

We can often get distracted by tools and trends (AI, new social platforms, “the next algorithm hack”). But the tools in your box will change; your job—to deliver transformation to clients—will not. Build your business around timeless principles like clear communication, trust, and delivering results, and you’ll outlast any trend.

AI, Avatars, and Authenticity

With the coming wave of AI avatars, deepfakes, and synthetic influencers, how should agency owners use these tools while maintaining authenticity?

Yes, you could deploy an AI influencer for your agency, especially if you’re camera-shy. But as Pete shared, their social media commandment #1 is “it has to be real.” Their scrappy videos may not be as polished as some big agencies, but they convert because they’re authentic, quirky, and genuinely helpful.

In a future where clients may question if what they see online is real, your authenticity will become your moat. Using AI should amplify your agency’s personality, not replace it, so let your realness be your competitive advantage.

Selling What Clients Need, Not What You Want to Sell

A small business owner struggling for two years with a site that wouldn’t show up on Google. Why? A simple “do not index” box was checked in WordPress. Everyone else was trying to pitch her a free “strategy call” (AKA sales call), but Pete charged for an SEO Power Hour, solved her problem immediately, and won her trust.

The takeaway for Pete was that it’s good he didn’t default to “selling a new website” when a client came for SEO. Don’t push a service because it’s your highest margin offer. Sell what they actually need. When you do, you become their trusted advisor, not another expense they’re trying to cut.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Running an agency can feel like chaos on repeat—clients, team stress, and no clear direction. You’re not alone. Today’s featured guest has built and sold a $3M+ agency, kept employee turnover under 5%, and is now launching a focused, values-driven agency built to thrive in today’s market. He shares some hard-won lessons on building a culture your team will never want to leave, attracting clients who respect your expertise, and creating the clarity and focus you need to scale without burning out. If you’re an agency owner who’s tired of the chaos and wants a clearer, saner path forward, this conversation will give you a roadmap worth following.

Colin Hetherington is the founder of the newly minted Common Good in Dublin, but he’s no rookie. Before that, he co-founded Zoo Digital, growing it past $3M a year before it was acquired, and even earlier, he pitched and built agency.com’s Dublin presence when Ireland barely had broadband.

After building and scaling agency.com Ireland, Colin and two colleagues grabbed coffee after a client meeting and decided, “There’s a better way to do this.” It wasn’t a grand plan with a 50-slide deck. It was a hunch—and a leap of faith.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he believes in taking the leap before you’re ready.

• Build systems or burn out.

• How to keep turnover at less than 5%.

• Why focus is the ultimate power move.

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E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Look for the Venn Diagram Sweet Spot

Colin’s first experience in digital marketing came when he worked for an agency in San Francisco back in 1999. At iTraffic, subsequently taken over by Agency.com, he learned about what was called at the time ‘internet advertising’, and five years later he pitched the idea of setting up Agency.com in Dublin. 

Their developing edge was putting strategy, creative, and technology under one roof at a time when agencies treated digital as an afterthought. That unique combination allowed them to win big clients like the National Lottery and the Irish Tourism Board with a tiny seven-person team.

In just two years, they went from zero to driving 12% of the group’s revenue and Colin and his partners felt ready to grow their own business.

Hitting Their Stride with Innovation

Zoo launched in 2008, right before the Great Recession and right as businesses started pulling back and budgets evaporated. However, they were able to adapt by winning some solid clients and partnering quietly behind the scenes with agencies that couldn’t handle digital in-house. They found scrappy ways to deliver big ideas on smaller budgets, often using student illustrators or leaner production.

By 2015, they’d grown the team to fourteen people and were hitting their stride with their original formula of combining strategy, creative, and technology under one roof that led them to work with big names like Redbull.

After bringing innovation to countless brand events, Colin’s agency started focusing on UX and got an important partnership with one of the largest banks in Ireland. While not every flashy innovation won new business immediately, it got them on pitch lists and made their team proud.

Hiring Before You’re Ready

Colin’s hiring strategy has always been taking leaps of faith. Instead of hiring one by one, they’d hire in threes or fours—betting on themselves to fill the pipeline. This was even back when they couldn’t forecast beyond five months.

For Colin, there was no use in debating and agonizing over these leaps for weeks when the team was already stretched for 1–2 months straight. Playing too small can be riskier than making bold, smart bets and, as they learned over time, taking those leaps of faith paid off every time. Every time they made that leap, the new team members were busy almost immediately.

Build Systems or Burn Out

On the other hand, Colin was not as quick to scale processes as they grew the team, which resulted in many projects being delayed and clients rightly unhappy about the situation.

At one point, Colin was heading to a client meeting with that sick-to-your-stomach feeling that they were about to get fired for missing deadlines. They didn’t get fired, but the client laid it out: “We love you, but can you ever deliver on time?”

That wake-up call pushed Colin to bring in operations help, implement systems, and build scalable processes so they could grow without chaos. This next step also required them to admit they just weren’t great project managers and needed outside help to build the foundations to grow the business.

Culture Is What You Live, Not What You Write

Colin managed to keep his agency’s employee turnover at less than 5% by putting a heavy focus on culture while he was at Zoo. It’s easy to slap a “values” page on your agency’s website. He understood that reducing churn meant reducing time spent on getting people up to speed, for instance, but he also understood that culture isn’t what you write down—it’s what you live.

For Colin, it all came down to leadership and how the leadership team delivers culture. For starters, they treated people like adults, trusting their team to own their work without micromanagement, and recognizing that work is just one part of life.

When hard times hit, like during COVID, Colin and his partners were transparent. They had to temporarily reduce salaries but promised to pay it back when the storm cleared—and they did. That act of integrity built trust in a way no ping-pong table or Slack emoji ever could.

Your Values Attract the Right Clients (and Repel the Wrong Ones)

If you’ve ever worked with a nightmare client—the kind who demands everything yesterday, disrespects your team, and thinks paying your invoice is a license to treat you like dirt—yyou know the toll it takes on your team and energy. On this, Jason and Colin agree: it’s better to walk away.

Colin has learned that sharing the unspoken values you hold as a team don’t just keep your culture healthy; they also shape the clients you attract. The best, longest-lasting client relationships he had were with organizations that shared similar values around respect, partnership, and clear communication. As to the nightmare clients? Those relationships were doomed from day one because the values were out of sync.

Focus Is the Ultimate Power Move

After selling Zoo, Colin is launching his new agency, Common Good, with one big lesson in mind: Focus beats everything.

Instead of being a generalist, Colin is zeroing in on serving state and civil service organizations in Ireland. He believes these organizations are doing important work that deserves to be communicated well—and that clear positioning will set them apart in a market where every agency says the same thing about their “process, portfolio, and people.”

What’s more, Colin isn’t trying to build another 60-person agency. He’s embracing the shift in the market toward lean, senior teams that can deliver high-quality work without unnecessary bloat.

If you’re still in the grind of your first agency, it’s normal not to have perfect clarity yet. You have to try things, learn what drains your energy, and double down on what gives you energy. The sooner you build reflection time into your schedule, the sooner you’ll find your agency’s true direction.

It may be hard to take the time to really think about these things. The day-to-day of running an agency can drown you in Slack messages, client calls, and fires to put out. But stepping back—even for a few hours each week—to reflect on where you’re going and why can be the difference between a business that drifts and one that thrives.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Buying another agency sounds like a shortcut to scale — but if you skip the wrong step or miss the wrong promise, you might inherit more problems than profit. But how do you actually approach due diligence to ensure a seamless, profitable acquisition?

Today’s featured guest learned these lessons the hard way. What started as a promising deal quickly revealed cracks, forcing him and his partner to navigate unexpected challenges to pull the agency through. In the process, he discovered the key questions you must ask before buying another agency and the hidden details that can make or break your investment.

If you’re an agency owner thinking about using acquisitions as a growth strategy, today’s conversation will equip you with real-world insights to avoid costly mistakes and set your agency up for a smoother, successful expansion.

Matt Marchetta is an agency owner with two decades of experience who recounts his journey in the industry, from starting his first web design business in high school to pivoting into e-commerce and ultimately becoming a digital nomad.

He teamed up with a partner to acquire Growth Labs, a lead generation shop focused on outbound. He goes over some of the challenges and crucial lessons learned during the acquisition process, particularly concerning due diligence, unforeseen client guarantees, and the original owner's significant personal brand influence on the agency's client base.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why buy another agency in the first place?

• Due diligence traps that cost real money.

• The ROI guarantee that almost blew up the deal.

• 4 questions you must ask before your next acquisition

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Solo Hustle to Ecom Growth Machine

Matt started his agency journey as a kid who just wanted to work for himself and quickly learned the hard way—like many do—that running a business isn’t just about being good at the work, it’s about learning the business of business. It’s a time he remembers fondly as a great foundation for his business education.

He pivoted early from generalist design and dev work into e-commerce, riding that wave as it grew. Over time, he layered in Facebook ads, video production, and photography to support product marketing for his clients. And while many were stuck in offices, Matt was ahead of the curve, running remote from day one, carving out a lifestyle business that let him travel, stay flexible, and keep agency life fun.

In fact, he never thought seriously about the possibility of selling his agency, since it’s something he really enjoys doing and didn’t think he’d ever get an offer that would compare to what he thinks it’s worth.

Why Buy an Agency?

So why would a guy who loves the freedom of his own agency buy another one?

Simple: leverage and evolution.

Matt and his current business partner decided it was time to level up their respective agencies. They were both tired of being generalists and saw an opportunity to specialize, automate, and potentially transition out of day-to-day client grind by acquiring a business with the right foundation.

They didn’t go hunting for a big fish they couldn’t afford. Instead, they targeted a sub-seven-figure agency they could buy at a fair multiple, with the goal of systemizing and growing it. Enter Growth Labs, an outbound lead gen agency specializing in cold email marketing.

What They Looked For Before the Purchase

Matt and his partner moved fast but smart:

• Profit and Loss: They dug into five years of P&Ls, noticing the typical COVID spike, post-spike drop, and finally profitability as the owner prepared to sell.

• Adbacks Reality Check: The books had plenty of “personal expenses” that, once removed, showed a clearer, stronger profit picture.

• Pipeline and Clients: They signed an NDA to peek at client lists, learning that the agency’s lead gen often came from the owner’s personal brand and reputation—great for credibility, but also something they’d need to replace with systems.

• Recurring vs. One-Off: They checked churn, recurring revenue, and how the business handled its leads and delivery so they wouldn’t be buying a leaky bucket.

Fast Close, Strategic Future

In true operator fashion, Matt and his partner put in an offer quickly (about three weeks after initial discussions) and agreed on a 1.3x EBITDA multiple. They wanted the former owner to stick around for a transition period, ensuring continuity while they layered in their own systems and strategic direction.

Everything looked clean. The seller had a strong personal brand. The books checked out (after adbacks). The plan was clear: earnout over three years, phased transition, and keep the seller involved for 12 months to ensure smooth client handoff and he agreed to do it.

Then the cracks appeared.

The ROI Guarantee Bomb

While poking around Slack before the official handover, Matt found discussions about an ROI guarantee with a disgruntled client. The seller brushed it off as a “Horoszi-level mistake from years back.”

No big deal, right?

Wrong.

Turns out, most new client contracts still included these ROI guarantees—often unwritten, often unenforceable, and often unrealistic. Combine that with underperforming cold email campaigns, and you have a recipe for churn, complaints, and a legal minefield.

What was supposed to be a 2-month campaign turned into 12-month obligations with clients expecting a magical ROI that the agency couldn’t verify, let alone control.

4 Lessons Matt Learned (So You Don’t Have to)

In hindsight, Matt admits they moved too fast. A few weeks wasn’t enough because due diligence should take longer than you think. His advice for agency owners is not to feel pressured—take the time to ask uncomfortable questions and look for patterns and keep these 4 aspects in mind:

1. Don’t just check contracts. Check promises. Matt discovered clients were sticking around for the wrong reasons—and the wrong terms—due to handshake promises that should’ve been flagged during due diligence.

2. Thoroughly analyze client data and churn patterns. Analyze the available metrics to determine whether or not clients are actually reaching goals. In his case, Matt found that using AI would’ve helped him uncover that consistent MRR masked a perfect churn pattern: lose three clients, gain three clients, every month. AI could’ve shown these patterns in minutes.

3. Expect that when the seller leaves, 80-90% of their lead gen leaves with them. If the agency’s pipeline depends on the owner’s personal brand, you need a plan to replace that before you wire funds.

4. Dig deeper into why the seller is selling—and why they started. Was the agency a real business solving a real need, or just a personal brand ATM for the founder? That origin story tells you how the business was run and what baggage you’re buying.

The Silver Lining

Was it all doom and gloom? Nope.

Matt discovered that despite the outdated “spray and pray” cold email approach, the agency’s foundations were solid: a capable team, strong email infrastructure, and processes that could be upgraded with AI personalization and scalable systems.

Instead of throwing in the towel, Matt is now rebuilding Growth Labs into a smarter, tech-enabled lead-gen agency aligned with the future, not the past.

And despite the headaches, Matt and his business partner are still hungry for more acquisitions, now with clear systems and smarter questions in hand. They’re even considering rolling up a group of specialist agencies as their next move.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

We’ve been talking about AI on this podcast for years — not just as the next shiny tool, but as the biggest shift agencies will face this decade. Yet most agencies still haven’t done more than dabble. Meanwhile, their competitors (or even their clients) are using AI to move faster, make sharper decisions, and drive results that leave everyone else scrambling to catch up. If you’re still on the sidelines, you’re already behind.

Today’s guest is clear about the game-changing role of AI in the agency world. He argues it’s not just about making your shop more efficient — it’s about driving better client results, delivering faster, deeper insights, and adding to your bottom line.

Agencies that fail to embrace AI risk being outpaced by clients who bring it in-house or by competitors already using it to gain an edge. To stay competitive, you have to take a forward-thinking approach that uses AI to scale operations, increase client value, and keep your best people.

Phil Parrish is the co-founder & President of PrograMetrix, a boutique programmatic advertising agency that also crushes it in paid search and paid social. Celebrating their 10-year anniversary this past April, Phil’s team has stayed nimble, focused, and mighty — helping clients dominate their digital paid media while driving real, measurable results. He’ll discuss his vision on AI, how he’s using it as a multiplier, and why that are not already adapting their processes to include this technology, will be exposed.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Navigating pipeline churn anxiety.

• Delivering quick wins with AI.

• Why agencies that don’t adapt will get exposed.

• Focus on the wins, not just the tasks.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Betting on Yourself (And Getting Clients to Bet on You Too)

Phil didn’t stumble into agency ownership by accident, but he didn’t overcomplicate it either. He built strong client relationships over the years, recognized the moment when he thought, “I can do what this company does — why not do it for myself?” and took the leap. With clients ready to follow, he launched PrograMetrix and started generating revenue quickly, sidestepping much of the risk that keeps many would-be agency owners stuck.

The takeaway? If you’ve built trust and consistently delivered, clients will follow when you launch your own shop. Relationships and results are your best startup capital.

Navigating Uncertainty Without Panic

Every agency owner hits moments of chaos—those “Are we going under?” nightmares that keep you up at 3 AM. So far, Phil’s journey hasn’t quite hit the “we can’t make payroll” panic, but pipeline uncertainty and client churn anxiety were very real, especially during COVID-19.

Ironically, the pandemic ended up being a huge growth driver. As trade shows and in-person events vanished, clients who were spending six figures on live events had to redeploy budgets digitally. PrograMetrix was perfectly positioned to catch that wave.

“You’ve got to have a good business plan, offer strategic value, make smart bets, and stay laser-focused when your back’s against the wall.”

It’s a solid reminder: when chaos hits, the cream rises. The agencies that pivot fast come out stronger.

AI: Beyond Social Posts and Rocket Emojis

Let’s get real: most agencies are looking at AI like it’s a shortcut to crank out social posts and blog content (and yes, that’s part of it). But Phil’s approach is a level above—he’s integrating AI deeply into PrograMetrix’s operations to enhance speed, insights, and performance, not just save a few hours per week.

In his view, agencies that have depended on time as their inventory and work on the basis that the more time they can utilize the more revenue they can drive will struggle unless they modernize operations using AI.

For its part, Phil’s agency is building a proprietary product using a licensed data warehouse, pulling data from all their platforms (The Trade Desk, Meta, Google, TikTok, LinkedIn, etc.), and using AI to run advanced queries and develop unique optimization techniques. The end goal would be to deliver faster, clearer, and more impactful insights that clients can’t get by simply logging into their ad accounts.

The bottom line: If your agency isn’t embedding AI into how you operate and deliver, not just as a tool to “save time,” clients will either bring it in-house or go with an agency that does. The market is moving, and speed and value are non-negotiables if you want to win and retain serious clients.

Delivering Quick Wins and Story-Driven Insights

Mid-market and enterprise clients dropping six to seven figures on ad spend need to feel your authority and your velocity from day one. They need to breathe easier knowing your agency has it handled, and they need to see progress fast, or they’ll be out.

Using AI, Phil’s agency uncovers insights like:

• Path to conversion (impressions and touchpoints before a sale)

• Channel impact across the funnel

• Audience segment insights

• Messaging that drives real ROI

They’re not just sending reports but turning complex data into actionable stories for their clients. If you’re still measuring your agency’s success by how much time you can bill rather than how much impact you can deliver, it’s time to rethink your model before your clients rethink you.

Why Agencies That Don’t Adapt Will Get Exposed

Look, AI isn’t going to wipe out agencies. But it will wipe out agencies that are stuck operating like it’s 2015, coasting on outdated processes, and sending the same recycled reports clients can pull themselves.

AI is like the giant scoreboard in baseball, showing every advanced stat in real-time. Agencies that are half-assing delivery can’t hide anymore. If you’re running bad ads, AI will show your client you suck, and you’ll get fired. (Like the agency I just fired.)

AI won’t kill the agency model, but it will expose agencies not using best-of-breed tools to deliver value faster.

AI as a Multiplier, Not a Threat — and Saves Him $200K

Phil is using AI as a force multiplier to:

• Deliver faster, clearer insights for clients

• Optimize campaigns for even a 2-3% lift that compounds over time

And they’re doing this without having to invest in new talent at the rate they otherwise would have. As Phil says, “if we can skip hiring one or two traders, that’s a $200K swing to the bottom line.” And it’s not because he doesn’t value his team—he’s investing in making his team better. AI helps smart people do better work, get better results, and actually enjoy their jobs.

Clients see more value, your agency scales efficiently, and your team sticks around longer, reducing churn and recruitment costs.

It’s About Buying Wins, Not Just Doing Tasks

If you’ve seen Moneyball, know Billy Beane reinvented baseball by focusing on “getting on base,” not vanity stats. Agencies should think the same way:

• What are your “get on base” moves that drive client results?

• Are you outcome-driven and problem-solving, or are you a task rabbit waiting to be replaced by AI?

When clients have big challenges, do they come to you first, or are you stuck doing low-value production work? If it’s the latter, it’s a sign to reposition your agency now. If you don’t, you’re writing your own exit letter from the industry.

Make AI Use Mandatory, Not Optional

As an agency leader, it’s time to go all-in on integrating AI across all SOPs, not just as an add-on for the leadership team. Why? Because this tech:

• Makes employees more valuable in the marketplace

• Makes them happier by removing annoying, low-leverage tasks

• Keeps your team aligned with your agency’s growth goals

Before they started using AI prompts to understand how to optimize a campaign or improve performance, their campaign managers were conducting huge Excel exports. Now they can focus on strategy. If you’re the only one using AI in your agency, you’re toast. You need to lead, train, and require your team to use these tools to become outcome-focused problem solvers rather than task executors.

Stop Being Fearful. Start Doing

If you’re feeling fear around AI, that’s normal. But you’ll stay scared if you don’t start using it. Phil’s team didn’t wait for a perfect moment; they’re actively building, testing, and refining AI use across their delivery and ops. The agencies that will win over the next 3-5 years aren’t the ones worrying about AI—they’re the ones using it to solve bigger problems faster for their clients.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is churn currently a problem with your agency clients? Are you aware of the reasons they decide to leave? It may be time to think hard about your onboarding process, client communication, and generally the ways you’re ensuring client satisfaction. The difference often comes down to positioning: are you operating as a trusted advisor or simply completing tasks? Today's special guest knows that agencies that prioritize client satisfaction, embrace accountability, and focus on becoming trusted advisors rather than mere task completers are the ones that create truly loyal clients.

As our Agency Scale Specialist, Darby Copenhaver, has closely observed the growth trajectories of numerous mastermind members and constantly communicates with them in their journeys. In this conversation, he and Jason get into the importance of strong communication and transparent onboarding processes to combat buyer's remorse and build trust.

They also address the strategic use of AI to enhance efficiency and results, stressing that while AI can automate tasks, human connection and understanding clients' evolving needs remain paramount for long-term partnerships.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to prevent your clients’ buyer's remorse.

• Your onboarding might be the problem.

• Stop ignoring current clients.

• Your secret retention weapon: ongoing discovery.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Why Your Clients Might Not Love You (Even if You’re Getting Results)

Ever feel like you’re crushing it for clients, but then they ghost you or churn unexpectedly? There are several reasons why this could be happening and ways to stop it before it kills your momentum.

Here’s the truth: buyers remorse sets in immediately after a client signs. It’s your job to kill that remorse with rock-solid communication and a frictionless onboarding experience. Most agencies think they’re good communicators because they answer emails. But clients want more than tasks checked off. They want to feel seen, understood, and confident they made the right decision. If you’re not proactively communicating wins (and misses), or if you let your PMs control the narrative without your oversight, you’re setting yourself up for churn, no matter how “good” your delivery is.

Your Onboarding Might Be Pushing Clients Away

As Jason knows from recent experiences as a client, most agencies’ onboarding is just an exhausting homework dump on clients who already told you their goals in the sales calls you recorded. Why are you making them repeat themselves, fill out giant forms, or wait for your scattered follow-ups?

Your clients didn’t hire you to do more work. They hired you to get results while saving them time.

• Break your onboarding into clear, easy phases,

• Reset expectations,

• Use the data you already have (like call transcripts and AI sorting) to fill in the blanks yourself.

If you set clear timelines, communication rhythms, and how success will be measured in that first meeting, you’ll position yourself as a trusted advisor, not another vendor barking for “assets” they’ve already shared. This is what makes clients relieved to work with you instead of stressed.

Communication: Simple, But Rarely Done Right

It’s so important for any business to show that you’re trustworthy, and you’ll show that by doing what you say you’ll do, when you say you’ll do it. Too many agencies fail to communicate delays, let tasks slip, and think a monthly dashboard is enough. It’s not.

Dashboards alone mean nothing to most clients. Some need a quick Loom, some need Slack check-ins, others need a simple “Here’s what we did, what’s next, and why it matters.” Customizing your communication style shows your clients you’re paying attention to them, not just copy-pasting your agency SOPs onto their business. This is how you become a trusted advisor, the person they call with challenges (not just tasks). That’s how you become irreplaceable.

So, which measures are you implementing at your agency to ensure - not just assume - that you know your clients are happy, not only with the results presented but also the overall experience?

Want Clients to Stick Around? Be Human

When was the last time you called a client you didn’t personally sell or deliver on, just to check in and say, “Hey, I’m the CEO, here’s my number if you need anything”?

Most agencies never do this, but it’s one of the simplest ways to build relationships that survive budget cuts and economic slowdowns. If clients only see you as a transaction, you’re the first thing to get cut. If they see you as a partner, they’ll fight to keep you.

Want to take it further? Fly out and have dinner with your top clients once a year. Exchange stories, show them you care, and watch how your retention and upsells climb.

Stop Leaving Money on the Table by Ignoring Current Clients

Agencies love to yell, “We need more leads!” But often, your easiest growth is sitting right in front of you. If your clients trust you, they’ll come to you with new problems—many of which you can solve or connect them with someone who can. This positions you as a problem solver, not an order taker.

Instances like this are a great opportunity to be strategic, guide them, and reinforce how much you value the relationship. Results are awesome, but that value is what will take from being transactional to being a value relationship they’ll fight to keep in times of economic uncertainty.

Why Ongoing Discovery Is Your Secret Retention Weapon

If you’re selling to clients you can’t grow with, you’re setting yourself up for frustration. Too many agencies say “yes” to clients who aren’t ready, don’t want help, or can’t commit to scaling. It’s like hiring a personal trainer while refusing to stop eating cake every night. They might pay you, but they won’t get results—and they’ll blame you when they don’t.

And what about after you’ve found the right clients? Darby believes too many agencies forget that discovery isn’t just for the sales process. Every client interaction should be a sort of ongoing discovery. Agencies that retain and grow accounts are constantly in ongoing discovery mode.

As you bring success to clients their needs will evolve, their businesses shift, and what worked four months ago might be irrelevant today. If you’re not in tune with those shifts, your agency becomes stale, and you’ll get replaced.

A challenge for agency owners: How are you staying aware of what’s changing in your clients’ businesses? Are you proactively checking in, asking about priorities, and aligning your services to what’s happening right now? Or are you stuck on autopilot, delivering what they hired you for while missing what they actually need today? Stay curious, stay in discovery, and you’ll stay essential.

Communication Clarity: 411 vs. 911

To prevent the typical disconnect when clients are unsure of who to reach out to and for what, Darby and Jason recommend this simple but powerful tactic brought by Agency Mastery member, Travis. He tells clients exactly who to reach out to for “411” (info & updates) vs. “911” (emergencies). This eliminates confusion, speeds up communication, and prevents small issues from turning into big frustrations.

And when you mess up—and you will—own it fast. Clients don’t want spin or silence. They want the truth — fast. One agency Jason used messed up an ad so badly it was embarrassing, and instead of calling to own it, they hid behind Slack messages. Don’t be that agency. Mistakes happen. What matters is how quickly and humanly you fix them.

Be Human. Clients Crave It.

At the heart of retention and growth is human connection. If your agency relationships feel like sterile transactions, you’re replaceable. Clients want to feel seen and understood. If everything you share sounds like sugarcoated wins while their results lag, they’ll start doubting you.

Long-term, high-value clients come from humanizing your interactions—having real conversations, admitting mistakes, sharing wins, and being upfront about challenges. Clients don’t want perfect robots; they want partners they trust.

Don’t Fear AI - Use It to Win

Do clients want their agencies to use AI? Overwhelmingly, yes. They just don’t what you to use it just to write articles and create crappy images, brands want their agencies using AI to get better results. According to a survey conducted by Audience Audit, 77% of brands are more likely to hire an agency seen as an AI expert, yet only 32% think their current agency is.

This is a massive opportunity. But here’s the key: don’t use AI as a crutch to replace human strategy. Use it to collect, analyze, and interpret data faster so you can bring clients valuable insights and make micro-adjustments that drive real results. Clients want done-for-you solutions that leverage AI under the hood while preserving a human relationship on the front end.

Just remember that clients don’t care about your systems, your dashboards, or your internal processes if they don’t lead to results. They want outcomes with as little friction as possible. AI can help you cut busywork, speed up insights, and refine strategy—but it’s your human understanding and relationship that keeps clients paying, referring, and expanding their contracts.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you invest in training high-potential employees to grow into leadership roles—or do you prefer to hire seasoned pros from the start? There’s no one-size-fits-all approach to building a great team, but today’s featured guest has a clear philosophy: when it comes to agency growth, he prefers to develop A-players from within. For him, building the bench is just as important as building the business.

Hamlet Azarian is the founder and CEO of Azarian Growth Agency, an agency that works with mid-market venture-backed startups helping them build their go-to-market strategies. He discusses his agency’s "build them up" strategy, focusing on continual learning and curiosity through an academy, webinars, and internships, rather than solely hiring seasoned professionals.

He’ll address the common agency challenge of talent retention, noting that positive experiences can still lead to future referrals and positive word-of-mouth, even if employees eventually move on. It’s an interesting episode where we dive into the importance of human capital and fostering a supportive, value-driven environment for agency success.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Growing talent from scratch.

• Promote those who are ready to shine.

• The secret to employee retention. 

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E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Go-to Fixer to Full Agency

Before he was running his own growth agency, Hamlet was the go-to fixer for venture-backed startups in the trenches of pre-product chaos. VCs brought him in as a high-paid consultant to help fragile startups figure out product validation and go-to-market traction — a risky sandbox where there’s barely a product and hardly any money.

As the companies he touched turned into multi-million-dollar powerhouses, word got around, more VCs lined up, and the Azarian Growth Agency was born. So as he recalls, it wasn’t exactly an accidental start, but considering he was helping startups that could barely write a check, he could not see it turning into a full agency in the beginning.

A Culture of Relentless Learning

One thing Hamlet doesn’t compromise on is curiosity. If you run an agency, you know yesterday’s marketing tactic is today’s LinkedIn meme. So instead of hiring only ‘seasoned experts,’ He invests in creating lifelong learners.

How? He built Azarian Growth Academy, which trains up-and-coming marketers on the exact growth strategies his agency deploys for high-stakes startups. Add to that a monthly Growth Lab webinar, Udemy courses (4,000+ students and counting), and a robust internship pipeline — and you get a team that knows not just what to do, but why it works.

Education is really central for Hamlet so his people don’t just follow checklists — they evolve with the market because they understand the principles behind the tactics.

Growing Talent from Scratch (and Letting Them Fly)

Does it work? Hamlet shares a story that answers that better than any hiring manifesto.

One intern joined as a college senior, left, and rejoined when Hamlet officially hung out his agency shingle. When he saw her application, Hamlet immediately hired her, as she knew her aptitude, passion, and even her weaknesses. Within 6 months, she was running paid ads. By year one, she was pitching clients solo. By year two, she was leading teams and today she’s a senior department head.

The lesson here is drive and curiosity should be backed with training, opportunity, and real trust. The payoff is massive loyalty and in-house expertise that’s molded to your agency’s playbook — not someone else’s.

Promotion by Performance, Not the Calendar

Forget annual reviews and rigid promotion ladders. Hamlet’s approach is simple: Learn fast, deliver results, get rewarded. To him, some people shine faster than others and, as the agency owners, you don’t to limit that potential.

Of course, you want to prepare them for the new role, so he tests emerging talent on internal agency projects before putting them on client accounts.

If they mess up, the agency learns — not the client’s bank account. It’s a safe sandbox for risk-taking and skill-building, with performance as the only true gatekeeper to moving up.

Flexibility: The Secret Sauce to Keeping Good People

How can you keep that talent from jumping ship the second they hit senior level? You don’t always. And Hamlet says that’s perfectly fine.

Even with AI evolving daily, Hamlet’s clear that an agency’s real moat is people — smart, motivated, curious people who feel trusted and supported to do their best work. Tools change. Channels come and go. But the humans who run them? That’s your agency’s real asset.

In his view, the agency’s success is predicated on the owner’s ability to bring in talented people on to the team and provide a great environment that encourages them to stay. And the definition of “great” in this case may vary from individual to individual, but Hamlet finds that more than  perks or a foosball table or free LaCroix, it’s about freedom.

People need room to live their lives — whether that’s hopping on a plane to Italy with the kids, or working flexible hours so family time doesn’t clash with client deadlines.

When people feel understood and trusted, they stay longer. And if they do leave? They become allies, not competitors. Many send referrals back. Some boomerang and return. And nearly all say, “That’s where I learned how to do great work.”

That reputation becomes your best recruiting tool — a self-feeding loop of great people wanting in.

Experience vs. Fresh Eyes: A Never-Ending Balancing Act

There’s a million ways to grow an agency and there are no easy answers when it comes to hiring. Even if you hire the “experienced pro,” they can become rigid and slow to adapt — a death knell for early-stage growth marketing where experimentation rules.

Hamlet’s advice is don’t bet the farm on resumes alone. Bet on mindset. Surround yourself with good people who share the same values. Look for curiosity, a love of learning, and the ability to fail, recover, and share lessons. Skills can be taught. Hunger can’t.

Define what you believe. Hire for it relentlessly. Train for skill, reward growth, and build an environment people don’t want to leave — and if they do, they still sing your praises.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How are you positioning your services as essential rather than optional, and accurately measuring growth and profitability to sustain long-term success? How are you measuring your agency’s growth and profitability? Today’s featured guests unpack how they scaled their PR shop past the million-dollar mark in under four years — and their journey offers valuable insights that any agency owner can apply immediately. Learn why they prefer growing the agency as partners, as opposed to sticking to being solopreneurs, how they’ve been tracking their growth, and how to over-communicate with clients openly so that choosing you is the easiest decision.

Caitlin Copple and Holly Conti are the co-partners of Full Swing PR, an agency that offers senior-level PR services to help amplify clients’ story or cause and takes pride in creating authentic, lasting relationships with clients. They discuss their unique partnership dynamics, their approach to quarterly planning and KPIs, and their philosophy on "practicing what you preach" in the agency world.

They also emphasize the importance of understanding client needs, demonstrating value, and the shift from focusing merely on publicity to generating tangible client pipelines.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Breaking the visionary and integrator partner mold.

• Making sure to walk the walk in your own business.

• How to make your business a ‘must-have’ 

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Breaking the Visionary-Integrator Mold

Caitlin started Full Swing solo, but always kept Holly in mind as the ideal partner for her business after they met working at an agency. It took some time, though, since Holly was first pregnant when Caitlin started the agency and then busy being a mom to a newborn. However, her involvement progressed, first as a moonlighter, then the agency’s first employee, and eventually becoming the co-pilot Caitlin had always envisioned.

Founder duos often get asked about who identifies as the “visionary” or the “integrator.” In their case, Caitlin and Holly both think big and get in the weeds. They take turns in both roles, which makes it complicated, but it works with a dose of brutally clear communication and mutual respect.

Why work like this? It all comes from their beginnings as working moms in the business. As they explain, they initially treated it like a job share tagging each other in and out in the early days so they could both keep the wheels turning — and the babies fed.

Partner Up or Burn Out

Some agency owners do prefer to fly solo, but for the ones stuck doing it all alone — losing sleep over payroll, client churn, or the next contract that might vaporize overnight — Caitlin and Holly are living proof that a solid partner is worth their weight in gold.

Having someone to say “we got this” when a contract gets pulled from underneath you is priceless. Sure, partnerships are basically work marriages (with all the ups and downs). But good ones make the tough days survivable — and the big wins that much sweeter.

Walk Your Talk or Get Called Out

Do you make sure your agency is practicing what you preach? Or are you one of the agencies that just “can’t find the time” to work on their own website or marketing?

Too many agencies hide behind ‘we’re too busy with client work’ while their own site looks like it was built in 1997 by a drunk intern.

In their specific case as a PR agency, Caitlin and Holly practice the tenacity they teach their clients to have. “PR is about tenacity. It’s not enough to do good work. People need to see you doing it.” Just like they tell clients to show up consistently, be visible, and ask for what they want. They make sure to do the same.

Furthermore, putting yourself in your clients’ shoes as small business owners will help you intimately understand the challenges they face and understand the investment they’re making on your agency and how much they’re betting on the results you can bring. For Caitlin, this means taking people “from publicity to pipeline,” because she understands as a small business owner how important it is to have four time the sales you need to meet your annual budget.

In other words, treat your own agency like your most important client — or watch it slowly bleed opportunities.

Quarterly Planning, KPIs, and the Secret Sauce

So much can change in just one year (as we all have seen with the last couple of years). In the six years they’ve been in business, Caitlin and Holly have been through a pandemic, an AI revolution, and the economy doing somersaults. At this point, planning once a year and forgetting about it seems like a rookie move.

They still set annual goals, of course. But quarterly check-ins are essential to running the day-to-day behind their million-dollar PR engine. Their leadership team meets every week to ensure that quarterly plan is still reality-proof.

Revenue is Cool, But Calls Are King

Although they do have a topline revenue goal and a profit margin goals for the agency, their north star isn’t revenue — it’s discovery calls.

After realizing there was much more to building a profitable business than hitting the $1 million mark, Caitlin and Holly have been focusing more on pipeline and conversion rates. They know that if they keep discovery calls flowing, the revenue follows.

Right now, if they book 10 calls with good fits, five become paying clients. That’s a predictable pipeline.

Pro tip: Track leading indicators religiously — site visits, key page hits, opt-ins, booked calls, and conversion rates at each step. If something’s off (like calls dropping off, or deals stalling), they fix that exact leak before it kills the next quarter.

So, if you’re still flying blind, eyeballing topline revenue in your QuickBooks and calling it planning —you’re normal… but you’re leaving money on the table.

How to Make PR (or Any Service) a Must-Have

In this economy, how to get clients to see your work more as a must-have than a “nice-to-have”?

In down markets, budgets get slashed — but essentials don’t. So how do you become an essential? You don’t chase anyone who’s just looking for a PR vanity headline. You focus on clients who want a pipeline, not just press.

If you’re having a hard time to get clients to see you as an essential, you may be talking to the wrong people. Think about your ideal clients. What do they believe? What are their challenges?

If you define your ideal client and start targeting them, you’ll attract people who truly see the value you can bring to their business.

Over-Communicate. Then Double It

Caitlin and Holly share their process openly with prospects. Step by step. No secrets.

Some agencies worry they’re giving away the farm. Newsflash: they’re not. Clients want to trust you know what you’re doing — but they don’t want to do it themselves. Everyone loves steak but no one wants to butcher a cow.

Their transparency means no confusion, no scope drama, and no “you didn’t say that” fights later. It’s all upfront.

And they even turned this transparency into a smart private podcast: “How to Hire a PR Agency” — a brilliant piece of sales enablement they send to prospects to handle all the FAQs before a call. That way, discovery calls stay focused where they should be: the client’s business.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever thought about niching down, then bailed because it sounded too painful? Or maybe you tried, but ditched it when things got awkward? Today’s guest proves why sticking it out is worth the initial pain — not just to find your niche, but to find the perfect business partner too.

Meet Daniel Moscovitch, founder of Flooring Pros Marketing, a digital marketing agency focused on helping established flooring businesses throughout the US & Canada cement their position as the best in their market. He started as a generalist - doing SEO for pretty much anyone with a website and a pulse. However, unsatisfied staying just another “me too” shop competing on price and freebies he doubled down on a single, very specific industry.

If you’re thinking “That sounds brutally hard…” you’re right. And that’s exactly why his story is worth paying attention to.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Moving beyond simple SEO to offer comprehensive solutions.

• How clarity helped him find perfect alignment with his second business partner.

• Leveraging AI for strategic decision-making and process improvement.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Picking a Hard Niche is One Thing. Surviving It is Another.

Daniel didn’t just decide to niche down overnight. He did what most agency owners do: listened to advice on the matter, got inspired, and then slammed into reality.

The first big obstacle he did not expect was letting go of “easy money” and legacy clients to go all-in on a focused market. He knew it was the right call but dropping old accounts and income streams wasn’t fun.

Next, it was building trust in a market that didn’t trust marketers.

Turns out, flooring companies aren’t like your typical trades. They’re often run more like retail stores than contractors. Multiple locations. Bigger payroll. Savvier buyers. And they’ve been burned by bad marketing agencies before.

So just ranking them on page one of Google was not enough. Daniel learned fast that his new niche didn’t just want leads they wanted the whole system: branding, follow-up, sales process, outreach, repeat business.

In other words: the actual solution not just SEO. Because the real lesson here is about getting under the hood of your client’s real pain points, not just selling your “service of the month.”

Authority is Earned One Small Win at a Time

If you’re wondering why Daniel didn’t quit (although he did consider it many times), it wasn’t because niching was easy.

He stuck with it because he saw the momentum stacking up:

• A podcast appearance got him in front of flooring pros.

• A trade show speaking gig landed him more eyes.

• He sponsored a Facebook group.

• He kept learning exactly what flooring clients actually needed and then built the solutions, piece by piece.

One client turned into two. Then five. Then fifteen.

Today Daniel’s agency is firmly planted as the go-to marketer for flooring pros. He now has the authority, pricing power, and clarity he didn’t have as a generalist.

Key Takeaway: Don’t Quit When it Gets Awkward

Daniel didn’t win because flooring was “easy money.” He won because he stuck with it long enough to know more about flooring marketing than any other agency out there.

Most agency owners quit when it gets awkward - or flip niches too fast.

Bottom line: the best niche isn’t the easiest — it’s the one you hang with long enough to become the undeniable authority.

Clarity First, Everything Else Second

When he started his SEO agency, Daniel was living in Tel Aviv, working at an SEO agency. Since not a lot of people knew about Search Engine Optimization there, it seemed like an opportunity to go on business on his own, which he did alongside another American friend who also wanted to start his own business.

That partnership worked fine for the first couple of years, until it didn’t. After Daniel moved back to the US, the relationship felt like playing Tug-of-War. They lived on different time zones, had competing interests and visions and the best call was for each to continue on their own path. It wasn’t easy. Daniel has spent the last two years picking up the pieces and setting a new vision for his business.

• Who are we?

• Who should we not serve?

• What kind of agency do we actually want to be?

That search for a new stage attracted a new partner — someone who brought the exact pieces Daniel needed, at a moment when he finally had the clarity that’s so hard (and so damn profitable) to get right.

Only after that did he attract a new partner - someone who brought missing business expertise and industry knowledge. That alignment supercharged sales and positioned them to charge more and work with better clients.

AI as an Unexpected Business Therapist

Daniel admits: he’s a strategist, not a “numbers guy.” But instead of hiring an expensive consultant, he leaned heavily on AI tools like ChatGPT to interrogate his processes, nail down his goals, and even fix onboarding gaps that caused early-client headaches.

Great owners use AI not to replace people, but to think better and move faster - especially when you can’t see your own blind spots.

Pro tip: Have AI interview you about your agency goals. It forces clarity you might avoid on your own.

Rebuild Processes Before You Scale

With ChatGPT as a voice he can bounce business ideas off of, Daniel has been working on developing clearer processes. While he used to shy away from these conversations, afraid to uncover huge flaws in the business, he now happily dives into deep strategy work to improve client communication and expectations.

For instance, the first 100 days with a new client can feel like a ghost town and that can spook even the best-fit clients. Daniel’s fix? Using AI and team workshops to tighten internal and external communication, so clients stay engaged while you work. This is crucial for avoiding churn and turning strategy into execution faster.

There’s No One-Size-Fits-All Path

Daniel’s advice for agency owners is to avoid comparing themselves to peers at all cost. Everyone is on their own path and success is better defined individually. Had he followed common advice, he would’ve never gotten into a second partnership, which has really helped the agency’s growth. Furthermore, his growth was slower by choice, but deeper because he focused on getting the right clients and the right team before chasing pure revenue.

As Jason says: “There’s no silver bullet - only silver pieces you combine into your own version of success.”

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How does a print designer become the founder of a thriving strategic web agency? Spoiler: It wasn’t all smooth sailing. But this agency founder figured out how to stop being the bottleneck, leverage systems and AI, and make his agency way more profitable along the way. It all began by creating a digital brain for his agency.

In this episode, Shawn Johnston, owner of Forge and Smith, a Vancouver-based agency shares how he’s been building bespoke WordPress sites for 13+ years. He’ll share his story—and some seriously smart tips for agency owners looking to scale and create more freedom in their agency.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why documenting your processes is key to scaling

• How to use AI to build a “digital brain” for your agency

• How to step out of day-to-day work and empower your team

• Tips for focusing your team on high-value, strategic work

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Print Design to Web Agency Owner

Like a lot of us, Shawn didn’t set out to build an agency. He started as a print designer back in 1996, cranking out newspaper ads when CSS came on the scene, sparking heated debate at the office over whether it would change the internet or not.

Shawn got curious, taught himself to code, and started building sites on the side.

What started as a hobby turned into freelancing… and when the 2008 housing collapse hit, he went all in. He hustled hard on Craigslist, building $1,500 WordPress sites and quickly realizing he was making more than his day job.

This gave way to his first lesson in business: Hustle works early on, but you can’t scale without systems.

When He Knew It Was a “Real” Agency

Starting out, Shawn was able to handle all the WordPress development, design, and strategy by himself. By setting up some repeatable pieces, he was able to grow his client list, with some of them coming back for site support. As projects stacked up, however, he hit a wall: He couldn’t sell, deliver, and support all at once.

He decided his first hire would handle client support, so he could free up time for higher-value work. From there, he slowly backed himself out of development… then strategy… then design - replacing himself piece by piece.

Of course, this didn’t automatically erase all the agency’s problems. Initially, it only created a new set challenges. Adding new pieces to the team made their lack of documented processes very clear. For a while, the handoff confusion created meant everything continued to run through Shawn... The real issue was that there was too much knowledge trapped in his head.

Why Documented Processes Are the Key to Scaling

The obvious solution was to start documenting everything from UX components to strategy guides to build quality standards. From that point on, everyone knew who was responsible for what and at what point. The goal wasn’t to limit creativity but to empower the team to make smart decisions without running to Shawn for answers.

For Shawn, a focal point of this shift had to be underlying the agency’s why. Everyone on the team had to be very clear on: Why do we work with clients the way we do? Why are we doing things this way and not that way? Making sure everyone understood the overall goals would inform the decision-making, cultural aspects, and would help the team work cohesively.

Documented systems = freedom for you and clarity for your team. Win-win.

The Next Step: Creating a ‘Digital Brain’ for Your Team

Fast forward to today, and Shawn is using AI to level up even more.

He records and transcribes sales calls, discovery calls, and proposal work—then synthesizes it into a knowledge base his team can actually use. No more “Shawn said this one thing on a call” confusion mid-project. The team can look back at the records and apply direction to move forward without him.

We’ve talked about the next step with AI for agency owners: train an AI assistant on your agency’s entire knowledge base.

That means training it with everything you have in your knowledge bank, including:

• Past client insights

• Brand guidelines

• Design patterns

• Sales conversations

• Internal processes

Apply these practices ASAP so that your team can tap that knowledge instantly — without pinging you for answers. Think of it as your agency’s “digital brain” and the key to your freedom.

Why Low-Code + Prebuilt Systems Are Boosting Profits

One of Shawn’s smartest moves has been leaning hard into reusable systems and low-code tools.

He’s baked strategy into UX components, aligned dev processes with design frameworks, and streamlined builds so 80% of each site is repeatable. That frees the team to focus on the 20% that really matters—the strategic stuff that drives results (and justifies premium pricing).

More profit, faster delivery, better outcomes. Everybody wins.

Ready to Stop Being the Bottleneck in Your Agency?

If you’re tired of everything running through you and want your team making smart decisions without constant handholding. Then it’s time to plug into a community of agency owners who’ve figured this stuff out. Inside the Agency Mastery Mastermind, you’ll learn exactly how to:
-Document and systematize your agency’s IP
-Leverage AI to scale your team’s capabilities
-Increase profit margins with smarter processes
-Step fully into the owner seat—so you can lead, not grind

You don’t have to figure this out alone. Come hang out with the smartest agency owners scaling today.

Have you ever found yourself grinding endlessly, only to pause and think, “Is this really what I signed up for?” Maybe you started your business chasing freedom—only to end up feeling trapped by the very thing you built. It’s a common trap: the belief that working harder and enduring more pressure will eventually earn you the right to enjoy life after a big exit.

But as today’s guest discovered, you don’t need to wait 10 more years to start living. What you really need is a clearer why, a stronger structure, and the right people around you—people who understand your vision and support your growth.

Blake Denman is the president and founder of Rickety Roo, a remote agency specializing in SEO and paid search marketing. He’ll discuss his unconventional path into entrepreneurship, which was influenced by a personal injury, and the importance of designing your business and life around personal values, not just growth for growth’s sake. He also shares his time management strategies, how he uses AI for self-reflection, and his perspective on the mental load of entrepreneurship.

If you're an agency owner still doing everything—from ops to admin to taxes—you’ll relate to his story.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Strategic hires that might results in your identity crisis.

• Designing your life before it designs you.

• Time audits, energy filters & the “$5K task” rule.

• Figuring out what you actually want.

• Do you thrive in chaos? Manufacture some healthy pressure.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

The Moment that Forced Him to Slow Down

Blake didn’t set out to build an agency. Like a lot of agency owners, he fell into it. What started as freelancing to pay the bills while he finished school and pursued a different career path took a hard left turn—literally—when a serious bike accident landed him with a traumatic brain injury.

That moment forced Blake to slow down. Rebuild. Rethink.

And when he got back into client work, he realized something: just because you can do it all doesn’t mean you should.

Like many agency owners, he hit the familiar ceiling of capacity. So he started hiring. First contractors. Then a coach in 2019. That’s when the game really changed.

The Pivot Point: Strategic Hires (and the Identity Crisis That Follows)

When you’ve built your agency from the ground up, letting go isn’t just hard—it can mess with your head.

One of the pivots that really made a difference in Blake’s agency was the strategic hires that required him to let go of some areas of the business. For instance, when he finally handed over operations. “I was like that John Travolta meme—just looking around wondering what to do with myself.”

And that’s the truth no one talks about: letting go of operations isn’t just a tactical decision. It’s emotional. You’ve tied your identity to being the guy who does everything. And suddenly… you're not.

That shift sparked something deeper—what Blake calls “identity paralysis.” Not a crisis, but a freeze. A moment of, “If I’m not the operator, who am I now?”

Spoiler: that question is the start of real CEO-level growth.

Designing Your Life (Before It Designs You)

Most agency owners plan every quarter like a military op: KPIs, OKRs, revenue targets.

But how many plan their life that way?

Blake started mapping his ideal year: the trips, the purchases, the experiences. Then he calculated what income he actually needed to live that life.

We’re mostly led to believe those goals are too far away, but the first time he did this he was just $1,500/month off.

So many agency owners think they need to sell their business to finally live the life they want. But often, you don’t need to sell—you just need to restructure. What if the business could serve your life now instead of being the thing you have to escape?

Time Audits, Energy Filters & the “$5K Task” Rule

Most people say they value their time but let it slip through their fingers, which is why you need a time tracking method that works for you.

After trying a few, Blake got a framework from one of his early coaches. He categorizes his weekly tasks into four buckets: $5, $50, $500, and $5,000/hour value.

If you think your time is worth $5,000 but the time audit shows its mostly spent in the $5 or $50 buckets, congrats—you’ve just diagnosed why your growth is stuck and your energy’s tanked. To his surprise, this is what happened to Blake, who was spending way more time than he thought on the $5 and $50 columns.

You don’t scale by doing more. You scale by doing less of the wrong things.

What Do You Actually Want?

If your agency isn't giving you time, freedom, and joy… what the hell are you building it for?

Blake now runs his agency with zero calls on Mondays. Focus time is blocked. The calendar is color-coded. And most importantly, the business doesn’t need him 60 hours a week to grow. He also has the whole team on Brain.fm, a tool that uses science-backed audio to get you in the zone faster.

Some would call that a lifestyle business, but so what? Lifestyle business can be extremely profitable too. Why not build your business around what you like and don’t like? People who  struggle for 20 years to then sell their agency find that after all their work they have maybe ten years left to do the things they want to do.

Lessons for the Owner-Operator Ready to Evolve

If you’re reading this and feeling that twinge—that mix of burnout and “I want more” clarity—take these cues from Blake:

-Let go of the identity that your agency is you.
-Map your ideal life, then build your business to fund it.
-Hire for elevation, not just delegation.
-Your value isn’t in the tasks you do. It’s in the vision you hold.

From the Hustle Hamster Wheel to the Hedonic Treadmill

You want the 8-figure agency, right? So did Blake.

Until he realized that every time he hit a new goal, he’d feel good for a week… maybe five days. Then it was back to baseline. This is what’s called the Hedonic Treadmill—and agency owners live on it without realizing it.

We chase growth for growth’s sake. Or worse, for external validation—from peers, clients, even family.

Blake stopped to think about what was next after he had the money. Was he supposed to save it? Spend it? Did he even need that much? Define what you want your life to look like, and build your agency to support that. Don’t fall into the trap of chasing growth for validation more than for yourself.

If you let go of the idea of just hitting a number, surround yourself with the best team and clients, and set your priorities, you’ll be able to go after what you really want and live your best life.

Agency Owners & the Calm in the Chaos

Most agency owners have had the type of upbringing that’s them great under pressure. Calm in chaos. Laser-focused when everything’s on fire.

Of course, this can also become a trap if you start creating chaos just to feel normal. For instance, you may seek pressure to push you into action.

In his case, after years of needing the chaos, Blake turned to Claude to figure out a way to manufacture chaos without the disastrous consequences.

His AI coach creates a “painful penalty” for missing a goal. For instance, donate $1,000 to a political group you can’t stand if you miss a revenue target. That’ll light a fire.

Point is: for some people motivation isn’t just about dreaming big. If you need some added pressure to get working engineer consequences that make staying small more painful than pushing forward.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

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What really happens after you sell your agency? Brent Weaver, founder of UGURUS, knows firsthand — and it wasn’t the beach-and-cocktails story most agency owners imagine. In this second half of our conversation, Brent opens up about what really happens after you sell a business, why his team stuck around (when they had every reason to bolt), navigating the shift from entrepreneur to executive within a corporate machine. He also lays down a fresh perspective on where agencies are headed in the AI era — and why human advantage is still your biggest asset.

If you missed Part One, go back — it sets the emotional stage. This one dives into the raw aftermath.

Brent Weaver is a veteran digital agency founder who scaled UGURUS, sold it not once, but twice, and is now charting a new course inside a larger ecosystem. But behind the polished LinkedIn update is a journey filled with doubt, identity shifts, and deep loyalty to team and customers.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• What no one tells you about life after a big exit

• How Brent is using AI at scale inside E2M

• Why “human advantage” still wins in an AI-driven world

• The risk agencies face if they treat AI like a gimmick

• How to protect clients from the “accountability gap” AI creates

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

What Really Happens After the Deal Closes

When most agency owners fantasize about the big exit, they think freedom, cash, maybe a beach. But Brent paints a more nuanced picture:

“Selling is one of the most emotional business events you can go through. You feel every end of the spectrum — excitement, fear, uncertainty.”

And no, he didn’t tell the team beforehand because he wasn’t even sure himself. Looking back, he remembers asking himself: ‘Is this what I want? What’s going to happen to our customers? Our team?’

Spoiler: Nobody left. Because Brent didn’t cash out and disappear. He pushed hard to give people incentives to stay, rolled up his sleeves, and stayed to help 10x the next chapter.

Brent’s first acquisition with Cloudways was scrappy, entrepreneurial, and chaotic in a good way. But once DigitalOcean came into the picture everything changed. Some of the team joined a small company where they had a voice — then suddenly, it was all process, approvals, structure. And not everyone loves that.

More recently, after staying at the newly-acquired agency, Brent took a step back from a direct client-facing role. At the same time, he had a bigger role in the back office, so despite people not seeing him as much, they also knew he was still around working on the business.

To his knowledge, no one left because of the acquisition. The agency saw the normal amount of churn for the business but all clients and team members knew that Brent was trying to provide a sense of continuity after the sale.

Why the Learning Curve is Shorter — and Scarier

BBack when Brent started learning about the business, he had no idea how to write a proposal. He didn’t know anyone in the industry who could orient him, and ended up writing one in the only format he knew: a high school essay. It was bad. It talked about his interests, why he was trustworthy and why they should hire him.

Comparing that experience from the early 2000s to now, where kids are doing triple backflips on BMX bikes at age 12 because they can watch the trick 10 minutes after it’s invented on Instagram, the speed at which someone can learn anything now is incredible. And even overwhelming.

For agency owners, this means two things:

1. There’s never been a better time to start.

2. There’s never been a harder time to stand out.

AI, Meta, and the Future of Agencies

Ever since WordPress came out, everyone thought agencies were dead. To Brent, all it did was create more demand for people who knew how to use it.

Same with Meta’s new tools or any AI platform. Brent’s take is clear: The tools will make advertising more accessible. But that will actually increase demand for agencies who know how to go deeper.

In his view, there’s no world where his old restaurant client — who had a flip phone and a fifth-grade education — was ever going to run his own ads. He just wants to cook.

Translation: AI doesn’t replace relationships. It just raises the bar on what value you’re bringing to that relationship.

Infusing AI Horizontally Across a Business: Brent’s New Role at E2M

The reality is, even in the AI era people still crave trust and connection. Even in a world where AI is analyzing spreadsheets and diagnosing ad performance better than most marketers, the decision to act still comes down to a human being. “I look at a spreadsheet,” Jason says, “and I want to throw up. But I put it into AI, and suddenly I get clarity.” That’s the shift—AI can sift through the noise, but humans still make the call.

Business owners aren’t about to turn over their bank accounts to a voice assistant. There’s always going to be a place for a trusted advisor—someone who knows the game, who gets results, and who’s got skin in it with you. For agencies, that’s the edge. If you can interpret the data and turn it into action, you’re still wildly valuable.

This isn’t about one person nerding out on ChatGPT after hours. AI isn’t a tool for the top—it’s a mindset for the whole team. At E2M, he’s stepping into a leadership role to help infuse AI horizontally across the company. That means operations, creative, sales—everyone using AI not as a crutch, but as a co-pilot.

The agencies that survive the next wave will be the ones who stop treating AI like a gimmick and start treating it like a business partner. Brent’s advice: don’t wait. Start now, even if it’s nights and weekends. Fire yourself from every job you’re not elite at. And that now includes jobs that AI can do faster, better, and at scale. "Leverage these tools to gut-check your deliverables,” he says. “You owe it to your clients.”

The Legal Line and the Accountability Gap

But it’s not all upside. Brent drops a crucial warning about accountability. AI might be amazing at cranking out contracts, pitch decks, and even deal structures—but if it screws up, who takes the hit? If chat tells you to jump off a bridge, and it goes south, you’re not suing OpenAI,” Brent jokes. You’re just canceling your $20 subscription.

And that’s where real coaches, consultants, and experts still matter. There’s a human soul to leadership, and a layer of accountability AI can’t (and maybe shouldn’t) touch. The smart play? Start with AI to generate, then apply your judgment to validate.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How do you turn a $99 course, launched before it was even fully built, into a 7-figure coaching business? Today’s guest did just that. And he’s here to share why scrappier beats slick every time. If you’ve ever second-guessed launching messy, this episode will feel like validation.

Brent Weaver is on the show talking about his start with UGURUS, the valuable learning that can come from starting before everything’s in place, and why what came after selling his business wasn’t exactly what he had expected.

Today we kick off a two-parter with Brent Weaver, the founder of UGURUS, who went from building websites in high school to launching one of the most successful coaching programs for digital agency owners. If you've ever second-guessed your “build it as you go” approach — or wondered whether selling $99 courses online could ever turn into something real—this episode will feel like a shot of validation.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Launching and selling without a net.

• The real reason Brent Weaver sold UGURUS.

• The unexpected, gut-punch part of selling. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Building Something Before It’s Built

In 2012, Brent’s agency was building on a tool called Business Catalyst, which led to a side project called BC Gurus, a blog for Business Catalyst users that eventually turned into a full-fledged business. That little blog became a membership site where his team posted business content on how to grow a Business Catalyst agency and, after selling his agency, was the seed for what eventually became UGURUS, a platform offering training and coaching to help agency owners close more deals and scale their businesses.

Just as they were preparing to move forward with the site without the Business Catalyst element, as this tool had been discontinued, Brent found the name UGURUS had just gone up for auction. It all seemed serendipitous as they easily won this auction and the new stage of the business began.

Lessons in Launching (and Selling) Without a Net

Throughout their journey, Brent and his team learned something that every agency owner needs to hear: you don’t need everything figured out before you start. And in fact, if you try to, you’ll likely never launch at all.

The early success of their $200 self-paced course helped them build an audience. But it wasn’t until they started offering deeper, high-ticket coaching that things clicked into place. Selling a few $2,000 seats was way more scalable than chasing thousands of low-ticket customers.

They did all of this without the luxury of a huge marketing budget or slick automation. Just hustle, relationships, partnerships, and a whole lot of belief in what they were doing.

This is something Brent and Jason have both experienced. They agree it’s better to go out, execute with what you have, and get feedback, rather than waiting for the perfect moment.

Brent Weaver on Building, Selling, and What Came Next

Brent and his team didn't start with a fully polished product. In fact, when they first launched their flagship 10K Bootcamp, they spent all their time selling it before creating it. In their view, if they couldn't sell it, they wouldn’t build it. But they sold it. About 30 seats at $2,000 a pop.

Of course, it did help that they weren’t starting from scratch. They had a list of about 10,000 emails from their time running BC Gurus, which helped immensely. And then they had one week to create the first session.

What followed was a whirlwind of late nights and Adobe Connect calls (for those who remember what that was) as Brent stayed one step ahead of each week's live session. It was clunky. It was imperfect. But it worked.

Why? Because Brent was committed. He responded immediately to the slightest client dissatisfaction. He personally handled delivery. And he overdelivered wherever possible. That scrappy MVP became the foundation for a business that helped thousands of agencies get out of the feast-and-famine cycle.

This kind of growth doesn’t happen when you wait for the stars to align. It happens when you ship early, listen hard, and iterate fast.

The $22,850 Lead Magnet That Took 6 Minutes to Create

Let’s talk about lead magnets that actually convert. The first product Brent ever sold was a gloriously titled “the $22,850 Website Proposal.” That wasn’t a gimmick. It was a real client proposal that closed a big deal—with cross-sells, recurring revenue, and multi-location projects all baked in.

Instead of building something fancy, he stripped out client details, dropped it into a Google Doc, and gave it away. Six minutes of work. Hundreds of thousands of downloads. The lesson? Your most valuable assets are often sitting in a dusty folder, not in your imagination. Proof beats polish every time.

The Real Reason Brent Sold UGURUS

So why sell a successful business? For Brent, it wasn’t burnout—it was the pull toward a bigger vision. After buying out his co-founder and riding the COVID rollercoaster, things just weren’t lighting him up anymore. Then came Cloudways—and more importantly, a series of conversations with their CMO, Santi.

In a way, he was no longer getting what he wanted from the business, and the more he spoke with Santi, and saw what they were doing with their platform, the more he dreamed about turning that into an agency growth community. Hence, what started as co-branded webinars and strategy calls evolved into shared vision sessions. Eventually, Cloudways pitched an acquisition. The appeal? A chance to bring agency coaching to a massive platform with 13,000+ agency users. Brent saw an opportunity to merge purpose with scale and went all in.

When the Buyer Gets Bought

Here’s the plot twist: just ten months after the acquisition, Cloudways got acquired by DigitalOcean, and suddenly UGURUS was a small fish in a billion-dollar pond. DigitalOcean was focused on AI, GPUs, and hardcore infrastructure—not coaching communities. So eventually, Brent’s team and vision were sidelined.

He stayed on. He fought for his team. But like he says—when you sell, it’s no longer yours. And if the buyer shifts priorities, you’ve got to live with it. That’s the tradeoff.

Don't Sell Unless You Know What’s Next

The hard truth here is don’t sell unless you know what you’re waking up to the next day. Brent thought he had his next chapter lined up. He had a six-month transition plan. A roadmap. But then came the cultural disconnect. Engineering talk at happy hours. Roadmaps that had nothing to do with agency growth. The adventure he signed up for didn’t look like what it became.

That’s the gut-punch part of selling. You can have a clean exit and still feel like you lost something. That’s why clarity before the exit is non-negotiable.

Next Time on Part Two: What really happens after the exit? Brent pulls back the curtain on post-sale culture shock, why some big opportunities fizzled, and how his next move with E2M caught even him by surprise. You won’t want to miss this.

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What if one bad hire wrecked your agency? What if the red flag you're dismissing tanked your margins? Most agency owners learn these lessons the hard way. But you don’t have to.

In this episode, Collin Slattery shares the red flags, hiring mistakes, and leadership shifts that helped him build an agency that’s not just growing—but growing sane. He’s here to share stories that can help you shortcut the pain and build smarter, sooner. From pricing hesitations to over-hiring juniors to waiting too long to fire a bad hire, he brings great insights about what not to do—and what to fix fast. At the end of the day, the goal isn’t just growth—it’s sane growth.

Collin Slattery is the founder of Taikun Digital, an agency that primarily focuses on the e-commerce space, doing Facebook ads, Google ads, and creative landing pages for clients. He’ll share his scrappy beginnings, the mistakes that cost him (and taught him), and the non-negotiables he’s learned about red flags and respecting your own time as an agency owner. His strategy now is simple: only do the work that’s uniquely his. Delegate the rest. And when hiring, pay for people who love the stuff you hate.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to spot sales-process red flags before they cost you.

• Why hiring friends usually fails—and how to do it right if you must.

• What to do before a big client leaves—so you’re not scrambling.

• The hiring mindset that leads to faster, saner growth.Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Starting with $300 and a Canadian Pharmacy

Right out of high school—class of ’07—Collin started making money online during what he calls the "Wild West" days of digital marketing. Think bootleg Canadian pharmacies, early Google Ads, and cracked versions of Adobe software.

One of his first official clients was a skincare brand called Spa Technologies, which he charged $300 a month to handle “all the web stuff”—from email and SEO to advertising and site updates. He even landed a local government gig in New York early (back when procurement was a little less formal). It wasn’t glamorous, but it was enough to plant the seed for what would eventually become his agency.

Eventually, Collin took the boutique route. He leaned into complex client problems and bespoke solutions, found his zone of genius, and grew from there.

Hiring Red Flags During the Sales Process

One of the most expensive lessons agency owners learn, and one Collin has relearned, is ignoring red flags during the sales process.

It’s amazing how anyone can forget to trust their gut when they need the money, but Collin has learned this lesson by now. From clients with unreasonable expectations who ghost meetings to those who show up late or treat your time like it’s optional, he has learned to put a limit. Today, he waits five minutes—max—for a prospect to join a call. If they don’t show, he’s out. Because if someone doesn’t respect your time on the sales call, they’re definitely not going to respect your process, boundaries, or team later on.

The biggest red flag for Collin is clients who offload all responsibility. If they’re promising to be your “best client ever” or insisting they’ll deliver everything you need “right away,” it’s worth digging deeper. Of course, clients who are too involved can also be a problem. However, the agency can’t be more invested than they are in their own success.

To prevent this, establish a pricing structure where at least 50% of the project is paid upfront, with clear dates for the remaining payments.. This can help irresponsible clients get moving on what they’re supposed to deliver, although Jason shares a story about a client who paid 100% upfront (before kickoff!) but delayed the project by not providing what was promised.

That’s why process and payment timelines matter. If you don’t control scope and expectations from day one, you’ll pay for it in time, profit, and sanity.

When One Bad Hire Derails Everything

Collin’s been on both ends of the hiring spectrum—over-prioritizing skill and under-prioritizing culture fit… then swinging the other way and hiring people he liked without checking if they actually had the skills.

Spoiler: Neither approach worked.

On top of that, he’s been guilty of stubbornly keeping people too long, thinking he could “fix” them. However, he’s now confident that owners can usually know on Day 1 if they made the wrong hire. Week 1 if you're generous. People usually start with their best foot forward, so if that’s shaky, it’s a red flag.

The real game-changer was learning to trust his gut early and cut things off quickly—for everyone’s sake.

Hiring Friends? Set Very Clear Expectations

Should you hire friends or family? Most agency owners will say no—and Collin would’ve agreed… until one friend hire actually worked out.

There were many factors that contributed to this, including expectations, where the agency is at, and the person’s character.

The first time he hired his best friend, it was a disaster. The second time, it was a former mentee who had already sold his own agency, knew the ropes, and was a perfect culture fit. They were open, direct, and mutually respectful—and it worked.

The lesson? If you do go down the friend/family road, set clear expectations, give both parties an exit ramp, and value the friendship above the business if things go sideways.

The Secret to Real Growth: Do Less of What You Hate

According to Collin, delegation and self-awareness are the great drivers of his agency’s success. He focused on hiring people to do the things he was either bad at or dreaded doing—even if he was good at them, because chances are someone else loves the stuff you hate doing.

That mindset shift allowed Collin to get laser-focused on what he does best—sales, marketing, and solving complex “math problems” for e-commerce clients.

Now he wakes up looking forward to work instead of dreading it.

When a Big Client Bails, Your Margins Matter More Than Ever

Recently, Collin’s agency lost its biggest client temporarily due to the pressures of the new tariffs. Instead of panic, his response was grounded and strategic.

He’s built his agency to survive losses like this and encourages agency owners to do the same, by thinking about pricing, hiring, and not sabotaging your own sales engine. Thanks to this mindset, the agency had healthy profit margins baked in.

If losing one client sends you into a tailspin, you’re probably not charging enough. You need to build your business in a way that you can survive losses without cutting down. That’s not just about pricing—it’s about operating with margin as a mindset.

One of the biggest mistakes agency owners make is hitting pause on sales because things feel good. Collin’s advice is to always be selling. And if capacity is tight, don’t pause—raise your prices.

Pro tip: Implement a sliding scale strategy. Every few clients, bump your pricing and track retention. You might find that you’re working less for more.

Want to Grow Fast? Hire Ahead of the Demand

Let’s talk about one of the hardest lessons agency owners learn: hiring too late. Collin admitted he brought on clients he couldn’t serve well—and paid the price in churn and stress.

This year, he’s trying a different strategy by hiring ahead of the demand. And not just anyone—hire senior people. Yes, it’s a luxury. But it’s also how you buy back your time and protect your client relationships.

Junior hires sound good on paper—cheap, trainable, full of potential. But they require time and energy you may not have. As Collin explains, the real value of a senior hire is autonomy because they can own it from day one.

”At the end of the day, if you don’t build margin into your agency, one bad month can wipe you out.”

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is your agency falling behind in the AI revolution—while competitors pull ahead? If you’ve handed off AI adaptation to your team and progress still feels sluggish, you’re not alone.

The uncomfortable truth? Delegating AI could be the biggest threat to your agency’s future.

Today’s guest, Brandon Na, has seen firsthand how agencies rise—or fall—in the face of disruption. From early SEO days to the AI era, he’s learned what it really takes to lead through change. And it starts with not outsourcing the future.

Many employees feel more fear than excitement about AI—worried it could signal the end of their careers. Instead, agency owners should be very involved in this process and actively try to identify team members who are excited to learn about AI and already experiment with it on their own time. The agencies that will thrive aren't the ones that delegate AI innovation down the chain of command but the ones that build transformation strategies around those natural innovators.   

Brandon Na is the founder of Seattle Organic SEO, as well as a venture capital pro and acting CMO. His path into agency life started with a simple desire to never have to do cold sales. So instead, he hacked his way into visibility through SEO. This path took Brandon to South Korea, where he helped scale an education company by 1,400%. He eventually returned to the U.S., launched his agency, and dominated the search rankings in a matter of months—all from a handshake mentorship deal with a guy exiting the space.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How you can avoid losing your way after ‘making it’.

• Will SEO survive AI?

• Why you shouldn’t delegate AI adoption. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

From Amazon to Agency Life (And What Jeff Bezos Taught Him About Leadership)

Brandon started out working at future giants like Amazon and Expedia and could’ve had a very different career had he stayed. Working at tech giants like Amazon and Expedia might sound glamorous today—but back then, it wasn’t. Low pay, stock options that seemed worthless, and a corporate culture that left him unimpressed taught Brandon an early lesson: big titles don’t equal strong leadership.

From his experience with Bezos, he learned that big titles don’t always mean big character and that leadership—true leadership—isn't about prestige, but about clarity, adaptation, and purpose.

Next, Brandon had his first try at entrepreneurship with a real estate practice before he ever touched agency work. Knowing by experience that sales was just not for him, he wondered how to get people to find him, which naturally led him to find SEO.

In the early days of SEO, Brandon decided to master the craft before launching his agency. He took a few years to learn, test his skills, and leverage some contacts before starting his agency.

Why So Many Leaders Lose Their Drive After Hitting Big Milestones

Seeing how big CEOs started and how they’ve evolved, one wonders how they manage to turn it all around. How do they get to a point in their leadership where the stories go from being terrible at managing employees to making history? For Brandon, it’s about never getting too comfortable once they have the money.

These trailblazers who have managed to conquer the world will not just retire and live a quiet life, they’ll just choose other ways to create and make an impact. Many of them eventually move into venture capital or find other passions. It’s an advisable path for agency owners who end up selling their businesses, because otherwise they can end up losing their sense of purpose.

If you’re chasing the next milestone remember that if you don’t define your purpose beyond the hustle, the success will feel hollow.

Growth Comes from Pressure - So Turn It Up

Although living through the pressure of working in tech during those early years was not easy, Brandon now looks back and can see it with different eyes. As he has learned from his work as CMO: “If you’re stuck on a problem—make the problem bigger.” Because being too comfortable, you can lose your edge. It may take time, since with AI, market shifts, and internal team chaos pulling us in every direction, it's easy to lose clarity, but if you focus on finding that problem you’ll grow.

It can sound counterintuitive, but in his experience bigger problems force bigger focus, more urgency, and better thinking. It’s easy to spin your wheels when you’re “fine”—but when the pressure’s real, you find out what you’re made of.

Can SEO Still Win in an AI World?

When a friend of Brandon told him he barely used Google anymore, he assumed it was because as a computer engineer, he was just ahead of everyone else in these trends. However, just five weeks later he realized he also was now using AI. After years in SEO, even he finds himself turning to AI tools like ChatGPT instead of even opening Google.

So is Google still relevant, or has AI already taken the crown? The bottom line is the way people find information is changing. And that has massive implications for how your agency helps clients get found.

Whether you’re creating blog content, developing ad strategies, or running full-scale marketing campaigns—AI is in the mix now. Platforms like Gemini, Claude, Perplexity, and even custom-trained agents are already out in the wild. And they’re fast.

Ultimately, the game is changing fast, and agencies that aren’t adapting might already be falling behind.

If your agency is still running fully human-powered workflows while other teams are using agents to ideate, write, design, test, and iterate faster than you can blink, you’re already behind.

But don’t panic. The solution isn't panic—it’s leadership.

Don’t Delegate the Future—Own It

One of the biggest traps agency owners fall into is just telling their team to “Figure out how to use AI,” and walking away. The reality is your team may not be motivated to lean in. Many employees view AI as a threat to their job—not a tool to make them better.

Instead, try:

• Identifying the team members already experimenting with AI tools.

• Giving those people the mandate and the resources to go deeper.

• Investing in training and testing to see what works—and what doesn’t.

• And most importantly, lead the charge yourself.

The agencies that survive the next 3–5 years won’t just be the ones doing better creative—they’ll be the ones moving faster, thinking smarter, and leading with tech.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What if scaling your agency wasn’t about adding clients—but building a community that fuels growth from within? During Covid lockdowns, today’s featured guest felt the need to turn his clients into a community, hosting events where they could get to know each other and build relationships. To this day, it remains one of the best changes he’s introduced at his agency.

With a dedicated community, a focused niche, and a cap on the amount of clients the agency takes, he created a sense of exclusivity that turned his agency into a “category of one” business that continues to thrive. Join us as he unpacks how his agency journey began, how he accidentally ran into his exclusive niche, and the ways he found to turn clients into members.

Oli Luke is the founder of Orange & Gray, a hearing healthcare marketing agency that’s not just thriving—it’s become a “category of one.” He shares how going ultra-niche, building a true community, and capping client growth actually led to bigger success. His story offers agency owners a powerful blueprint for growth by focusing less on volume and more on depth.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The power of creating scarcity.

• Choosing community over clients.

• Why client selection will save you headaches.

• Using AI to have a bigger impact with clients. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Creating Category Leadership with Your Agency

Oli started in the marketing world as early as fifteen years old, running a “questionably illegal” business that relied on marketing savvy more than morals. That spirit of experimentation, however, continued to evolve into something far more focused and in 2017 he launched a niche agency focused solely on hearing healthcare.

Like many agency owners, Oli knows the pain of being a generalist—serving anyone and everyone just to keep the lights on. But once he committed to a hyper-niche model, everything changed.

“We help a very specific type of business,” he explained. “There’s only about 2,000 potential clients in the world for us. So we’re not looking for quantity—we’re looking for quality.” According to Oli, once you’re playing in such a specific arena, you’re playing against maybe three competitors, which helps you become very good at that sweet spot.

By focusing on a tight, underserved market, Oli’s agency was able to create a “category of one” positioning. It wasn’t just another agency—they were the agency for hearing healthcare and that kind of positioning is gold.

The Power of Capping Growth and Creating Scarcity

Here’s something you don’t hear every day: Oli has no plans to scale his agency to the moon. In fact, he’s capping it at 100 clients. “We don’t want more. We want depth of relationship,” he said.

This kind of intentional limitation creates natural scarcity and urgency and real, earned exclusivity. Prospects know there’s a limit, so they know if they leave coming back will mean paying significantly more.

It’s a model Seth Godin once praised: deep focus, selective intake, and high trust. Oli’s clients know they’re one of the few, which raises the bar for everyone—team, clients, and prospects.

Community Over Clients: How COVID Changed Everything

Oli’s most unexpected move—and perhaps his most impactful—came during COVID when, like many agency owners, he had to rethink everything. Prior to that, he ran a very traditional agency, with one-to-one relationships with clients that mostly didn’t know each other. This all changed during COVID, when amid the shutdowns and uncertainty, Oli’s team started hosting weekly “campfire chats” to bring them together. That simple shift sparked a powerful transformation.

“We almost pivoted from being just a marketing agency and to being a communications company,” he said. By bringing clients together, the bonds formed turned into something more powerful than any campaign.

That organic community—born out of crisis—evolved into something deeper. Today, Oli’s agency doesn’t just have clients; they have members. And the community has only grown since the days of the campfire chats.

For him, there’s nothing more powerful than getting people together, especially in this new AI era where human connection will become increasingly rarer and more important.

There are monthly calls, print newsletters, annual events, and even an Austin Powers-themed meetup in London for their U.S. clients.

The community is more than a retention tool—it’s a moat. Members feel like they’re part of something elite, something valuable. It’s not just about services; it’s about belonging.

Why Client Selection Matters

As established, if you’re running an agency and not building a community of your clients, you’re missing one of the biggest strategic advantages available today. Yet, it may lead to competition – some of those clients won’t want to be in the same room as their competitor.

That’s why your client selection matters. You can’t afford to bring in clients who don’t align with your values, even when you’re in startup mode and tempted to say yes to everyone.

Learning this will take some time, but it’ll always be worth it because, more than just executing for them, you’re making them part of something bigger—giving them access to relationships, tools, and strategies that help them grow. And that, right there, is what makes the difference.

Finding a Niche... by Accident

Like many agency owners, Oli didn’t start with a clear niche. In fact, his entrance into the hearing care industry in the U.S. was totally accidental—through a client speaking engagement in Houston.

Back then, he had a small marketing company in the UK and a client who was doing work as a speaker in the US hearing care industry and invited him to one of his events. There, Oli shared some ideas with the audience. Just tips that seemed obvious to him in the marketing industry but were eye-opening to his listeners in the hearing care industry. He was asked to help some in that audience implement these ideas and, before he knew it, he had found a niche.

When the Market Shifts, Community Wins

It’s easy to panic when markets get weird. And let’s face it—we’re in a weird season right now. But the truth is, these “down” times are often where the biggest opportunities lie.

Remember 2008? 2000? COVID? Each one of those eras had agency owners panicking—and also created massive opportunities for those willing to adapt. When your competitors pull back, you lean in.

And it’s not just theory. Community-first strategies during downturns can redefine your agency. They create stickiness, loyalty, and value beyond deliverables. People remember who helped them weather the storm—and they stick around.

This is especially true for agencies that have found their ideal niche and have therefore found a way to be of significantly more value than just the doing. These agencies are in a position to lead their clients through these changes and provided much needed leadership.

The AI Evolution: Smaller Teams, Bigger Impact

There’s a lot of noise about AI replacing agencies. But let’s get real: Agencies aren’t going away. They’re just changing.

At the end of the day, agencies are the middle man between someone having a problem and arriving at the solution. People will still need help, they’ll just be able to do more with less people. What used to take 100 employees might now take 30—or even 10. The work doesn’t vanish—it evolves. It becomes smarter, faster, and more strategic. You still need strategy. You still need people making decisions. But with AI, your execution becomes more powerful.

And your clients know this. They’re not oblivious. Bigger brands are already coming to agencies saying, “We want the same output with fewer people—powered by AI.” If you’re not ready to answer that call, you’ll get left behind.

That’s why understanding AI—and being able to communicate your expertise in it—is going to be a game-changer.

Supercharged Workflows with AI Agents

One of the ways agencies should start leveraging AI is by creating their own internal AI agent using ChatGPT. For instance, you can use it to train that agent with:

• Case studies

• Client challenges

• CRM data

• Brand voice

Once you do that, share it with your team so they can start using it to write a blog post, a LinkedIn update, or any kind of content—and it generates something better than most humans would.

This is where the future’s headed. Not to replace humans—but to empower your team with incredible leverage. You’re not building a bot to do your job—you’re building a smarter team that gets more done.

One More Tip: Start a Podcast

Even with all his experience and success in choosing a niche, creating community, and using AI, Oli maintains that starting a weekly podcast was the best move he ever made for the business. It drove client attraction, retention, education, and brand recognition. And with AI, it’s never been easier to create high-quality content consistently.

If you’re not creating content—especially in podcast form—it’s time to rethink your strategy.

Want to Build an Exclusive, Scalable Agency That Clients Line Up For?

Our Agency Blueprint helps you identify growth bottlenecks, build community-driven strategies, and position your agency as a category of one.

If you’re the visionary still stuck doing the work, you’re not scaling—you’re surviving. Joaby Parker knows that loop well. From launching his agency straight out of college to nearly burning out and walking away, his story is a masterclass in doing too much, too long.
In this episode, you’ll hear how Joaby broke free from the grind, stopped bottlenecking his team, and built a business that scales without him.

He shares his journey from founding his first agency right out of college to walking away and returning to agency life with a new approach and mindset. He reveals what caused his early plateau, why he left to work client-side, and how returning to the agency world taught him how to lead, grow, and eventually let go of the creative and account management roles that were holding him back.

Joaby Parker is the founder and CEO of Cover 3 Growth Partners, a strategy-first agency based in Logan, Utah, focused on food and CPG brands. With a background in creative marketing and brand development, Joaby’s approach combines practical business strategy with creative execution.

He discusses how his passion for marketing and working closely with various agencies inspired him to start his own and reflects on the challenges of the early years, the gradual momentum they built, and how he learned that building a successful agency isn’t about doing more. It’s about doing less of the wrong things—and putting the right people, values, and systems in place so you can grow without burning out.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The turning point that made him leave his first agency and come back stronger.

• How his mindset around delegation and trust evolved.

• Why being a visionary means you’re probably a bad manager—and that’s okay.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Why Joaby Chose the Agency Path: Early Missteps & Major Momentum

Joaby had a purposeful entry into the agency space, after developing a passion for marketing working with several agencies on the client side at Health & Fitness. He had the opportunity to work hand in hand with many agencies and knew he would someday want to run one himself. After a few years of learning experience, he and his partner made the jump to start their own agency.

Being quite young, their first few years with the agency were marked by a lack of direction. Their first big turning point came after securing a contact with Chemdry that led to a complete rebrand of this company. Soon after, when HomeDepot acquired the carpet cleaning business, Joaby and his partner had the opportunity to assist in this transition period, helping all Chemdry franchisees take advantage of this new HomeDepot partnership.

This is really when the business took off and Joaby and his partner started to deal with other aspects of scaling.

The Breaking Point That Made Him Go Back to His Roots

Growth flatlined. Burnout crept in. Joaby’s agency hit the ceiling—and he couldn’t figure out why. Turns out, it wasn’t a marketing problem. It was a management problem.

Initially, Joaby attributed this stagnation to geography—living in a small town seemed to be limiting their growth potential, especially during a time when digital outreach was much more challenging than it is today.

Around this same time, an existing client presented Joaby with an opportunity to join their internal team. It was a great opportunity and a needed break from the agency life so he accepted, after securing another partner that could take over his contributions at the agency. It felt like going back to basics for him and gave him the time and space to think about what went wrong at that agency.

Looking back, he sees the reason for that first agency’s plateau was a lack of processes. While referrals from existing clients provided a steady stream of work, they were insufficient for sustained growth, which ultimately led to a plateau in growth. Ultimately, they struggled to find opportunities to get in front of people to do more work.

This scenario is all too familiar for agency owners. They typically reach a breaking point where their small founding teams can no longer handle the client load. The natural response is to hire more staff, which increases revenue but often decreases profit margins—leaving owners feeling trapped and pressured. The key differentiator between agencies that remain stuck and those that break through to the next level is making the strategic decision to raise prices rather than simply adding more bodies to the team.

You Don’t Need to Do It All—You Need the Right People

Looking back, Joaby now realizes he could have pushed the agency to that next stage of growth, but at the time, the pressure felt overwhelming. He still wasn’t good at running an agency, just good at working in one, and although it seemed like the business was evolving, the reality was that Joaby had more costs than ever and was working more hours than he ever had before. At that moment, the opportunity to go back to work on the client side seemed like an escape.

Joaby admits that, for most of his career, he was a bad business manager. If you're reading this as a visionary-minded agency owner—which many are—you might recognize yourself in his story. Rather than forcing yourself into an ill-fitting management role, the solution is to build a team that amplifies your natural strengths. This means hiring self-managing professionals or dedicated operations managers who can handle the day-to-day business mechanics, freeing you to focus your energy where it creates the most impact.

The common objection to this approach is cost: "I can't afford to hire that level of talent."If this is your case, then the easiest solution will always be to raise your prices. How to justify that raise? Narrow your focus. When you become the go-to expert for a particular niche, you'll discover clients who are willing to pay for your true value rather than treating your services as a commodity.

Stop Running the Mouse—Start Leading the Team

These days, Joaby’s creative involvement is way down from what it used to be. For many years, most of the agency’s creative work still needed his approval in some way or another.

However, at one point he and his partner realized that, whenever he wasn’t stuck doing the creative work the agency grew and once he did go back to it, the agency stagnated. Agency growth is often limited by the founder, not the market, not the clients, and not even the team. When he focused on building and leading—growth resumed. If you’re still running the mouse, reviewing every piece of creative, or handling every big client call, you’re not leading—you’re doing. And that’s the bottleneck. It took Joaby some time to learn this. In fact, other than overseeing creative, he was also main account manager, where he didn’t do the best job, since he couldn’t fully focus on that area.

In the end, client complaints about lack of focus helped Joaby recognize that it was time to hire account managers and start delegating. Scaling an agency isn’t about doing more—it’s about doing less yourself. By embracing your role as a leader, not a doer, hiring smarter, and building a team around your vision, you create the space for sustainable growth. Whether you're stuck in the grind or unsure how to let go, the answer isn't working harder—it's building better.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Most agency owners screw up their first sales hire. Why? Because they either hire the wrong person, or refuse to let go of control.

Travis Hoechlin used to think building a sales team was a waste of time—until he realized he was the bottleneck. In this episode, you’ll hear how he went from solo closer to leading a performance-driven team that fuels his agency’s growth.

Travis Hoechlin is the CEO of Rize Up Media, a marketing company specializing in law firm services. He shares insights into his journey from working at a large agency to starting his own and discusses the challenges of stepping out of a comfortable position and the motivations that ultimately led him and his business partner to take the leap into entrepreneurship. Travis also shared his experience building a top sales team, his logic behind hiring experienced seller instead of going for junior salespeople he could train, and how he keeps his team motivated and competitive.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• What most owners get wrong when building sales teams.

• The hidden cost of overlooking your top performers.

• How to hire competitive closers who don’t need babysitting.

• Incentives that actually work (even with a remote team).

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

The True Cost of Overlooking Top Performers

Travis began his career working for one of the largest agencies in the industry. Despite previously owning a mortgage company, he and his current business partner found themselves settling into the comfort of corporate life—big paychecks, steady accolades, and a sense of stability.

But deep down, Travis always knew he wanted to build something of his own again. It wasn’t until a disagreement with his former boss that he finally made the leap. Looking back, he wishes he’d made the move sooner. Still, the way it unfolded taught him an important lesson.

As one of the agency’s top sellers, Travis had earned a spot in their elite President’s Club—or so he thought. When he was unexpectedly passed over, it became clear that his contributions weren’t truly valued. That moment of frustration became the catalyst for change.

Sometimes, it takes a setback to shake us out of complacency. Travis’s story is a powerful reminder: comfort can be deceiving, and top performers often leave not because of the work, but because their impact isn’t fully recognized. For agency owners, it’s a call to action—acknowledge your best people, or risk losing them.

The Journey from Seller to Sales Leader

As one of the top salespeople at his former agency, Travis was a natural fit to lead sales at his own. But like many high-performing sellers, he was hesitant about building a sales team. Great salespeople don’t always make great managers—and Travis wasn’t sure he could find others who would match the drive and success he brought to the table.

His competitive nature added another layer of resistance. The idea of hiring someone who might rival his performance didn’t sit well with him at first. But over time, realized that no matter how strong he was on his own, two or three skilled salespeople giving their all would far outperform his solo efforts.

That mindset shift changed everything. Once he found the right people—sales pros who believed in the agency’s mission—Travis stepped back. He moved out of the day-to-day sales role, choosing instead to support the team and help them succeed. After all, they had taken a chance on a growing agency, and he felt a responsibility to help them thrive.

Many agency owners struggle with this transition. It’s hard to let go of what you’re great at. But as Travis discovered, tying your value to a single role—especially one you refuse to let go—can turn you into your agency’s biggest bottleneck. Growth requires trust, delegation, and a willingness to lead from the side, not just the front.

Strategy for Building a Premium Agency Sales Force

Once Travis fully committed to building a sales team, he hit the ground running—bringing on two salespeople to start, then two more just a few months later. Since then, he’s made it a habit to hire two to three new sales reps each year, fueling the agency’s continued growth.

While many agencies try to save money by hiring junior reps, Travis believes that route often costs more in the long run. He only recruits experienced, high-performing sales talent since inexperienced hires need extensive training, close management, and time to ramp up—resources many growing agencies simply can’t afford to spare.

Instead, Travis looks for people who are naturally competitive, hungry to earn, and confident in their ability to close. In his view, a good salesperson can sell anything. If a new hire hasn’t sold agency services before, he keeps their focus simple for the first 30 days: just book him meetings. From there, he leads the calls while they shadow, learn, and build the confidence to eventually run the sales process on their own.

Additionally, rather than hiring one rep at a time, he prefers onboarding two or three at once. Sure, not all of them will work out—but with multiple hires, at least one or two typically stick, and you’re not back at square one. Plus, the healthy competition that comes from a group ramping together drives performance. When top salespeople are surrounded by peers who are also gunning for results, it pushes everyone to level up.

For Travis, building a sales team isn’t just about offloading calls—it’s about creating a high-performance culture that multiplies results and drives the agency forward.

Incentives That Actually Build Culture—Even Remotely

Travis understands that great salespeople are driven by more than just commission—they thrive on competition, recognition, and rewards. In corporate environments, these high performers are often motivated by bonuses, contests, and incentive trips—and Travis knew his agency needed to offer the same kind of energy to attract and retain top talent.

Having been the top seller at his previous job, he experienced firsthand how powerful the right incentives can be. So, he implemented a clear and compelling incentive structure for his team: hit an annual sales target of $850,000, and you qualify for an all-expenses-paid trip to a luxury destination, such as their recent five-day retreat at the Four Seasons in Costa Rica.

But it's more than just a reward—it’s a shared goal that unites the team. With about a third of his salesforce working remotely from across the globe, these trips serve as a rallying point, fostering camaraderie, motivation, and culture.

This blend of healthy competition and team connection is critical in sales. By setting ambitious but achievable goals—and celebrating those who reach them—Travis has built a culture where individuals are motivated to win, and the entire team moves forward together.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Ever build a business that “looked” successful—but left you feeling empty? Jeff Hilimire sure did and then he did something about it.

In this episode, we unpack how he turned a successful agency career into a mission-driven movement—building purpose-led businesses, launching a global volunteer initiative, and writing books that challenge how we think about impact.

Today’s featured guest always genuinely enjoyed agency life—something he quickly realized was the exception, not the norm. That realization led him to a mission: helping others discover greater meaning in their business journey. Whether it’s through his books, his leadership, or his venture that unites developers to build websites for nonprofits in just 24 hours, he is all about turning intention into action.

We have the pleasure of welcoming back Jeff Hilimire, the podcast's very first guest, nearly eleven years ago. He shares what drives him to help business owners build purpose-driven companies, why he started writing books, and how he carved his own path in the publishing world. You’ll also hear about his latest work with Purpose Group, his thoughts on operationalizing purpose, and how to lead with clarity through times of crisis.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why he made it his mission to help entrepreneurs build purpose-driven businesses.

• Using the concept of ‘Dream Small’ to build a network of volunteers to help non-profits.

• How he embedded his books with his unique vision. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

From Joke Websites to Purpose-Driven Business Empire

Jeff's journey in the agency world began with simple curiosity in 1996 when, as a college student, he built joke websites with a friend. Eventually, they figured if they made it a business, they could keep doing what they loved, which led to building several sites for free and a humble start with their first paying client, Jeff’s aunt, who paid them $250 to build her business’ website.

Jeff has done a lot since being on the podcast’s first episode talking about that first agency. He’s been founding, growing, and selling businesses over the last 25 years. He has also been a board member of several initiatives and written six books just since 2019.

His latest venture is the Purpose Group, where he and his team acquire and reinvigorate small businesses by training more inspired and engaged employees through their Purpose Playbook™ methodology — which is very much linked to the knowledge Jeff has been sharing through his books, teaching entrepreneurs to build purpose-driven businesses, and helping them find that same joy he’s always found in his different businesses.

Start with One: How Dreaming Small Can Change Everything

In Jeff’s experience, many people never go after their dream projects because it feels too big and daunting to start. Instead, he believes it’s best to start small and give that first step. If your goal is to help people, then help at least one person.

This is the premise behind Jeff’s book Dream Small, which helped him grow his venture 48in48, an initiative born out of the idea of getting his team to help non-profits build websites. It would give them the satisfaction of helping someone while giving two selected non-profits a functional website in 48 hours. The plan gradually grew to include thousands of volunteers who offered time and expertise to help these non-profits for one weekend. Since developing this idea, Jeff has held 35 events with 7,500 volunteers around the world pitching in to help build 1,300 websites for non-profits. And while these numbers are great, he knows that had he started with that in mind, the project would’ve probably never taken off. People needed to see it was possible at a small scale before committing to do more.

Tired of Boring Business Books? So Was Jeff

Back when Jeff wrote his first book, he wanted to bridge the gap between traditional business thinking and entrepreneurial mindset. Having repeatedly encountered CMOs who resisted innovation with claims that they "couldn't take that chance," Jeff wanted to share his conviction that business was all about taking risks.

Initially, he intended to deliver a straightforward business manual and approached the writing process as such. However, he has personally never enjoyed those books, which became apparent as he navigated through the content and found that the rigidity of a traditional format stifled his creativity. Hence, he tried a different approach and embraced storytelling—creating characters and scenarios that embodied the entrepreneurial spirit. This is when Jeff found joy in the writing process and he’s continued developing stories within the same fictional universe.

Furthermore, after facing multiple rejections from traditional publishers, Jeff applied his risk-taking philosophy to launch his own small publishing house. Today, this venture works with approximately 25 authors and actively seeks innovative approaches to business storytelling.

Becoming a Better Leader by Setting a Purpose Beyond Profit

In his case, Jeff started out as the programmer in his partnership and oversaw that aspect of his agency’s operations for some time. The moment he hired someone else to help him with that task, he immediately recognized there were much better-qualified developers and that his own time would be better spent growing the agency.

In fact, he believes agency owners who have limited capacities and require help from the start can actually scale faster since they won’t get caught up working in the agency and can focus on growth. When founders recognize their limitations and delegate from the beginning, they avoid becoming trapped in day-to-day operations to focus exclusively on strategic growth opportunities.

Despite this operational insight, Jeff initially lacked a sophisticated vision beyond the vague goal of "eventually selling." It took time and experience for him to develop a more nuanced understanding of valuations and how different exit timings would affect the agency's ultimate value. His strategic thinking evolved only after navigating through multiple mergers and sales.

The most profound transformation in Jeff's approach came years into his business journey when he began thinking about purpose beyond profit. While he had always wanted to create a workplace where people enjoyed their work and developed professionally, he eventually expanded this intuition into a deliberate focus on organizational culture and consciously building values into the business foundation.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you doing great work but still feel like your agency’s stuck in neutral? The truth is, talent alone doesn’t scale a business. In this episode our guest, Stephen Woessner—author, agency growth strategist, and founder of Predictive ROI—reveals why most agencies hit a ceiling... and how to break through with a smarter, more strategic approach.

From developing a true methodology to showing up with content that teaches, we dive into what’s working now (and what’s not) when it comes to agency growth, client expectations, and scaling with intention. If you’ve ever relied a little too heavily on referrals, be unsure of your niche, or found yourself winging it without a real system—this one's for you. Tune in to learn how to enhance your agency's approach to attracting clients and scaling your business!

Stephen Woessner is the founder of Predictive ROI, an agency that helps clients build predictable and repeatable ROI so they can focus on doing the work they love alongside clients they choose. With over 30 years of experience, including a six-year stint in academia, Stephen discusses what’s working right now to get more leads, why getting specific is vital for agencies, and why the journey to scaling your journey requires patience, as well as methodology.

Stephen also hosts the "Onward Nation" and "Sell with Authority" podcasts and is the bestselling author of five books, including his latest, “Sell With Authority".

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why you should be ridiculously specific.

• Developing a true methodology to showcase your process.

• How a softer approach can lead to bigger wins.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

The Power of Specificity (and Content That Teaches)

Stephen has had a long career in the agency world, starting thirty years ago, before ROI was a thing, and working alongside agencies and consultants — teaching them how to build their authority within the markets they serve. He worked six-years in academia while also sharing his knowledge in his first books on Viral Social Networking and SEO. The expertise shared in these books got him requests to work as a consultant for different businesses, which led to him starting his own agency in 2009.

At his agency, Stephen commonly works with agencies and consultants that are going about sales and new business development in the least effective, most painful way possible. In fifteen years, he’s seen a lot in the business and now brings his own perspective on what’s currently working in the agency space.

According to him, success comes from being ridiculously specific—about who you serve, what you offer, and how you market it. It’s not about flashy gimmicks or one-size-fits-all strategies. Agencies that clearly communicate their expertise and share their knowledge generously (even for free!) are the ones building long-term trust.

With the many AI tools available for marketers nowadays, there just isn’t a valid excuse for not putting your own content out there to attract clients with valuable tips that show your expertise. These should be small, actionable pieces that solve real problems. That kind of generosity leads to high-quality leads who already trust you by the time they reach out.

While the tools might not be polished yet, they show just how easy it is now to create content and show up consistently. The key is that agencies need to be intentional, have a point of view, know their clients’ real pain points and speak to them clearly.

Raise the Bar or Get Left Behind

Today’s clients are smart. They’re looking for specialized, strategic partners—not generalists who throw spaghetti at the wall. Agencies that develop a true methodology, a real system for delivering results, stand out. It’s not just about the work—it’s about the process behind it.

Simply put, a solid methodology builds trust. It shows prospects that you know what you’re doing and that you’ve done it before. And yes, it's a big part of what makes an agency sellable down the road.

If you’re familiar with games like “Age of Empires,” the process of building your methodology will be a lot like starting scrappy in the stone age—just you, maybe a freelancer or two. But as you gather resources (aka leads, a team, and tools) and build systems (onboarding, sales, and delivery processes), you level up. The methodology evolves as you grow—and mastering each stage is what gets you to the next one.

The path to growth requires structure, clarity, and an intentional approach. If you’re still winging it with no repeatable system in place it might be time to rethink the game plan.

How a Softer Approach Can Lead to Bigger Wins

Other than a methodology, the journey to the top will also require patience. Scaling an agency is rarely instantaneous and each stage of development comes with its own challenges and learning experiences.

Agencies at various levels of growth face unique challenges, and the aspiration to leap from a level two to level thirty-seven—is just unrealistic. You need to experience the wins and losses that truly gives you the expertise to sustain growth and learn to appreciate that they’ve prepared you for the next challenges and goals.

Jason was actually confronted with this lesson while preparing for his latest event, which although did eventually sell out, but did so much more slowly than he would’ve liked. In the end, the team made the decision to stop being pushy about promoting the event and instead try to be more inviting.

A pushy attitude will likely be met with resistance. Instead, a gentle nudge or an invitation to explore creates a sense of curiosity and openness. By reframing the conversation from one of pressure to one of invitation, he was able to build trust and rapport. People are more likely to engage when they feel they have the autonomy to make choices without feeling coerced.

This is the same principle that drives successful business generation. Instead of being pushy, make sure you’re sharing case studies, insights, or even hosting webinars that allow prospects to learn and engage with the agency's expertise. Trust that you’re offering great value that resonates with the target audience, encouraging your audience to lean in and explore further, rather than overwhelming them with hard sells.

Creating Content That Draws the Right Clients In

So what is the type of content agencies should be creating to get prospects to lean in? The first thing that may make you feel like you’re screaming into the void is trying to attract just any client who can sign a check.

Successful companies have shown that focusing on a select group of high-performing clients can lead to tremendous success. This does not mean that if you start to work with plumbers you’ll have to work with that niche in perpetuity. A niche can also be a specific problem you solve or an area you serve, not just an industry.

When you focus on "right fit" clients, you'll attract people you genuinely enjoy working with who choose to stay with your business long-term. When agency owners narrow their focus, they can tailor their offerings to meet the unique needs of their chosen niche. This not only enhances the quality of service but also simplifies the content creation process. Once the target audience is identified, agencies can generate relevant and engaging content that addresses the specific problems and pain points of their clients.

At this point, you can focus on sharing content that makes a lasting impression. By providing valuable information upfront, you’ll no doubt capture the attention of potential clients and build credibility.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

I’ve been paying an agency to run our Meta ads and for some time Meta itself has been reaching out to take over the account. Let that sink in. The same platform your agency relies on is actively trying to cut you out of the picture.

The worst part? This is just one example of a much bigger shift. Big tech is building tools that create entire campaigns—copy, design, video, testing—without a human in sight. Your strategist? Replaced. Designer? Replaced. Copywriter? Gone.

I get it. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but it isn’t necessarily the end of agencies. It’s just the end of the ones that built their model on tasks.

So what’s the future for agencies?

Agencies Built on Tasks Are Already Obsolete

Let’s get real: if you’re still selling deliverables, your agency’s already falling behind. What AI can’t replicate is leadership. At the end of the day clients want results and direction. Smart agencies are not selling tasks anymore. They're selling thinking.

Here’s how they’re staying ahead:

1. Productize the Thinking, Not the Task

Most agencies sell what they do – SEO, ad management – Clients don’t care that you “run Facebook ads.” They want results. Instead of saying “We run ads for local businesses,” say

“We help local gyms get 100 leads in 30 days with a proven 3-step system.”

You just went from vendor to strategic partner that sell a system that scales. Productizing your thinking means turning your knowledge into a framework.

When you package your thinking and your strategy as something like “The 30-Day Lead Domination System” or “The 5-Step Authority Engine” your expertise becomes a product. That’s what scales.

2. Sell Speed and Certainty

Speed is an agency superpower. Most clients aren’t losing to competitors—they’re drowning in indecision. They don’t need more options—they need momentum.

So skip the six-week strategy plan. Instead of saying “We’ll optimize your funnel,” offer quick wins:

“We’ll launch your highest-converting offer by Friday.”

Certainty is what closes deals. Clarity is what makes them stick.

3. Own Your Niche

Generic is dead. The riches are still in the niches. Solve a very specific problem for a very specific group of people. The more specific your promise, the more profitable your agency will become.

4. Use AI—But Don’t Compete With It

Don’t just talk about AI—implement it. Show your clients how to use AI to streamline workflows, automate leads, and improve reporting. Become the AI Sherpa, not the tool.

If you’re not guiding your clients through AI, someone else will.

5. Build Client Community

Want to be irreplaceable? Connect your clients to each other.

Host virtual meetups. Build a mastermind. Facilitate introductions. Create spaces for idea-sharing. AI will never replace real human connection—and your clients are craving it.

We’ve seen this firsthand with the agency mastermind: community is the real secret weapon.

6. Be the Guide, Not the Gun

Execution is cheap. Clarity is priceless.

AI will never replace someone who can build leads. Be the one who filters the noise. Be the coach. Once you step into that role, I can promise you your value will skyrocket.

So, Did Zuck Kill the Agency Model? Not Even Close.

He didn’t kill it—he evolved it. The agencies that lead, think, and adapt will be the ones that thrive. Those that keep selling tasks will get replaced.

Agency Mastermind

Still feel like you’re winging it? You're not alone. Most agency owners hit a plateau because they're stuck in the business, buried in decisions, and disconnected from people who get it. The agencies killing it and scaling faster found out they needed to be in the right room. Go to https://www.agencymastery360.com/agency-mastery and get access to a community of agency owners sharing their data, deals, strategies, and mindset shifts.

AI isn’t coming for your agency—it’s already here. And if you haven’t set clear guidelines for how your team (and your clients) engage with it, you’re already behind. In this episode, one agency founder shares how he went from AI skeptic to strategic adopter—rewriting his workflows, client communications, and pricing strategy to future-proof his business.

Join us as we explore how to move beyond simply offering AI-enhanced services—and start leveraging AI to boost profitability, streamline operations, and establish your agency as a leader in this new era.

Paolo Vidali is the founder of Hidden Gears, an agency specializing in e-commerce and Shopify. With over a decade of experience in design, development, and digital marketing, Paolo shares his journey into agency ownership and discusses the challenges and rewards of building a small, distributed team across the US and Europe, as well as the factors that are informing his evolving policies on AI use.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why expertise will still set you apart in the era of AI.

• How Paolo went from AI skeptic to viewing it as mission-critical.

• How you can change your agency’s game by integrating AI into your operations. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Making a Low-Risk Jump to Entrepreneurship

Paolo sees his road to owning an agency as accidental, in the sense that it was never the plan to do it full time. Initially working for a digital marketing agency focused on B2B and lead generation, he began freelancing on the side. A couple of years into this, however, he realized the work he was doing on the nights and weekends was scalable and something he could ultimately grow.

Back then, the jump to entrepreneurship seemed like a move he could realistically make without risking much of the low-cost lifestyle he led at the time. If anything went wrong, he’d just go back to working for an agency. He ended up building a successful organization he has intentionally kept small to maintain the close client relationships and team cohesion that have become hallmarks of his business model.

How AI Went from “Maybe” to Mission-Critical

After being in the world of e-commerce for over a decade, Paolo has witnessed firsthand the evolution of digital marketing and the rise of platforms like Shopify. And although he initially didn’t believe the AI hype, it soon became apparent that the landscape was shifting dramatically. It was time to establish policies that dictated how staff and contractors would interact with this technology, so the agency would always be involved in how they experimented with it.

The team's approach to AI evolved in two parallel tracks: externally, they carefully calibrated AI integration based on individual client preferences, while internally conducting tests to identify operational efficiencies.

Years later, what Paolo originally envisioned as merely a future service offering has instead become fundamental to the agency's internal operations, with AI tools now dramatically reducing time spent on previously labor-intensive tasks like content creation, customer support, and data analysis.

Why Expertise Will Still Set You Apart & How This Can Affect Your Pricing

Predictably, one of the concerns around AI as its usage spread was around agencies becoming obsolete. In reality, Paolo can clearly see the difference between his team using AI, with many hours dedicated to understanding the technology and using it effectively, and any random person using the same tools. Now the challenge becomes how much value to place on that knowledge when it comes to their overall prices.

Should they charge based on the time saved through automation, or should they consider the expertise required to generate quality outputs? Much like Paolo’s mother can still out-Google him thanks to her deep understanding of information retrieval as a librarian, professionals in the field now possess the knowledge to input data effectively and assess the quality of the results produced by AI.

This is why agencies should be charging on a value-based model instead of hourly rates. The technology certainly aids in finishing the tasks a lot sooner, but it’s the agency’s knowledge of the tools that helps complete the task efficiently.

ChatGPT Changed the Game—Now Agencies Have to Raise Theirs

Paolo's team is conducting systematic A/B testing to evaluate AI's potential impact on their agency workflows, quantifying time savings and process optimizations to determine where technology genuinely enhances value.

To foster innovation while maintaining control, Paolo encourages staff to explore diverse AI tools during personal time and share promising discoveries, while implementing strict data protection protocols. Client information can only be processed in secure, isolated environments that prevent data from being incorporated into learning models, which led to his specific ban on Deepseek.

AI has already found practical applications throughout the agency. Paolo personally leverages it for copywriting and proposal refinement, appreciating how it enhances professionalism and improves success rates. His team is also using AI for drafting content, something clients are notified about and an area where they are aware the AI results will still need to be fact-checked and revised. In his view, the use of AI has to be justified as being something that adds to the process to save time, cut costs, and improve results, rather than simply being a crutch.

Overall, Paolo does think that the way people now shop for and consider content services and content marketing has forever been changed. He’s already seen a decline in companies’ investment in SEO, since clients feel there’s no need if they can just ask ChatGPT to write that content. Despite this shift, he remains confident that agency expertise produces superior results. The challenge facing agency owners now is strategic adaptation—integrating AI capabilities while demonstrating their distinctive value in an evolving digital landscape.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is remote agency life really the dream? While many chase the freedom of working from anywhere, the reality is far more complex. In this episode, Lisa Larson-Kelley shares how she built a high-performing remote team—without sacrificing culture, communication, or control.

Today’s featured guest decided long ago that she prefers the remote option and shares what really makes remote work actually succeed. For her, it comes down to two crucial elements:

1. Creating a solid structure for clear communication and aligned goals

2. Hiring people who thrive in self-led, remote environments

Tune in to hear how she built these systems into her agency—and how she still prioritizes meaningful, in-person connection to strengthen team culture.

Lisa Larson-Kelley is the CEO and founder of Quantious, a marketing enablement agency specializing in B2B tech companies. Her agency has worked with some of the biggest tech companies in the world, starting with Adobe and building relationships that would later take them to work with Google and Meta. Currently, she’s looking forward to leveraging this experience working with big companies to create lasting relationships with smaller startups and mid-market companies as well.

She talks about the challenges and benefits of running a remote agency, how she finds talent suited for remote work, and how implementing EOS in her agency operations improved her business’ structure, communications, and employees accountability.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How EOS gives structure and accountability.

• The traits she looks for when hiring remote talent

• How she keeps team culture strong with in-person retreats

• Why remote work isn’t “easier”—but can be better with the right systems. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

A Pivot Fueled by Adversity

Lisa began her professional journey as a developer, then transitioned to freelance consulting. Seeing she had a knack for explaining technical processes, she took some writing courses and expanded her abilities into content writing. Lisa’s freelance work soon attracted several major tech companies.

The growing demand for her services prompted her to hire her first intern through Craigslist, initially viewing this expansion as an extension of her freelance business. However, when her husband fell seriously ill, Lisa's need to provide financial stability for her family motivated her to formalize and grow her operation into a proper agency. What had started as individual consulting work had evolved into a full-fledged business born of both opportunity and necessity.

Why Lisa’s Agency Thrives Remotely—And How Yours Can Too

Since founding her agency, Lisa has maintained a primarily remote operation. She did try to run the team from an office a little before Covid restrictions came to send everyone home again, but was finding it tedious, with common complaints about people’s choice of food or annoying habits. It seemed as though petty distractions disappeared once they returned to remote work.

As the owner of a remote agency, Lisa admits this modality isn’t easier—it’s just a different kind of hard. To truly succeed, agency owners who want a remote team must take care to carefully choose people suited for this type of work. Some people really do need the presence of someone keeping them accountable. These people find that on-site work provides them a sense of structure and that the interaction with teammates helps improve their performance.

Lisa looks for workers who are able to self-manage and are results-oriented. Her team always has access to managers through Slack, of course, but they mostly prefer to manage their work and their time to better fit their lifestyles. Remote teams can leverage technology to enhance collaboration and communication, using tools like video conferencing, project management software, and instant messaging platforms allow team members to work together seamlessly, regardless of their geographical location.

Assessing Candidates’ Adaptability to Remote Work

Not everyone is suited for remote work, so after assessing a candidate’s suitability for the role based on their skills and experience, Lisa also looks to identify whether or not they are suited to work in this modality. If you have struggled finding workers who thrive in a remote setting, try to use assessments and structured interview questions to gauge a candidate's suitability. For instance, asking about their strategies for maintaining accountability can reveal much about their potential success in a remote setting.

Furthermore, candidates who have previously navigated remote roles often have the skills and mindset necessary to thrive in similar environments. This experience can translate into a more seamless integration into a remote team, as these individuals are likely already familiar with the challenges and best practices associated with this working style.

How EOS Can Transform Your Remote Agency Operations

The Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) has helped many agencies create the sense of structure that some remote teams may be missing. In it, every worker has their goals, so they know what they’re working towards, as well the agency’s goals for the quarter, so everyone can grow in the same direction.

It wasn’t immediately easy or intuitive for Lisa to implement EOS into her agency processes. She read the book and tried to self-implement it unsuccessfully. It wasn’t until she was introduced to an implementer who could help her with the process and keep her accountable that she felt she was on the right path with this system.

With expert guidance, structured meetings became the cornerstone of Lisa's agency operations. These non-negotiable, regularly scheduled sessions ensure team alignment and individual accountability. Using Ninety software, Lisa's team conducts highly organized meetings with clear agendas and built-in timers that keep discussions focused on measurable outcomes and actionable tasks. This systematic approach eliminates wasted time while fostering a culture where team members understand their specific responsibilities.

This framework helps Lisa establish high-level objectives aligned with her agency's vision, then break these down into manageable steps by working backward from desired outcomes. For instance, if an agency aims to achieve $20 million in top-line revenue and $10 million in net profit, how does this cascade down to individual team members? This clear linkage between daily activities and long-term objectives helps create a culture of accountability and proactive engagement.

Structuring Professional Growth in Remote Agencies

Part of the changes introduced with the use of EOS was establishing clear pathways for employee growth, something that employees themselves asked for. While tenure still influences senior positions, the agency's COO developed a three-stage framework that provides visual clarity for professional development.

• Seed: Your ground-level tasks for any particular role.

• Blossom: Demonstrating confident competence and Independence in that role.

• Bloom: Preparing for advancement to the next position.

Interestingly, this framework is not necessarily linear recognizing that personal circumstances may cause employees to move between stages. If an employee shifts from "Blossom" back to "Seed," management initiates supportive conversations to discuss their situation and explore potential paths forward based on the employee's choices.

This is an important initiative that all agency owners hoping to scale their agency should consider as it forces you to think about ways to scale your team and locate the leaders that will help take the pressure off you as you start to delegate responsibility to them. Furthermore, you’ll be taking action to help your team take ownership of their roles, thus increasing retention as you motivate individuals who could get frustrated if they don’t see growth opportunities.

How In-Person Retreats Build Camaraderie in a Distributed Workforce

Running a remote agency takes a lot of organization, structure, and also an appreciation for in-person connection. Lisa understands that while tech keeps teams connected, it can’t replace the depth of real, in-person connection.. Hence, to encourage team bonding, she organizes a team retreat, that most recently took the team to Puerto Rico, for a few days of team building activities, but mostly to just be together in the same space.

This is a great lesson for agency owners who want to run a remote agency. Building camaraderie through in-person connections will also have practical implications for agency growth. In-person retreats and gatherings can serve as platforms for discussing career aspirations, setting goals, and mapping out pathways for professional growth, as well as fostering stronger relationships, enhanced communication, and a more cohesive work environment.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

What if scaling your agency didn’t mean more stress, but less? Discover how Devon Hayes and Amanda Joyce turned partnership into freedom—and how you can, too. If you’re an agency owner ready to stop grinding and start growing, this episode is for you.

These two entrepreneurs joined forces as partners specifically to navigate this growth journey together—and witnessed how this strategic decision created the growth, impact, and freedom they had always envisioned. Tune in to discover their realization that scaling represented not an additional burden but rather the crucial shift from merely sustaining their businesses to expanding them intentionally and the ongoing challenges they continue to face as they adapt to this exciting new chapter in their entrepreneurial journey.

Devon Hayes and Amanda Joyce aren’t just agency owners—they’re proof that collaboration can unlock freedom. With deep experience in PR, construction, and financial services, they share the lessons they learned the hard way—so you don’t have to.

They are co-founders of Elevation Marketing, a company specializing in the home services niche, including roofing, custom home building, and plumbing. They share their journey of coming together after running their own agencies and what inspired them to start their first businesses.

Additionally, they’ll share what drove them to choosing their current niche and the lessons they’re still learning about building their client pipeline and going beyond being referral-based.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Joining forces to unlock freedom.

• Finding the winning niche.

• Why scaling is worth the fear. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Joining Forces to go From Solo Struggles to Shared Success

Before meeting, Devon and Amanda were forging separate paths as agency owners, both yearning for greater freedom and support in their professional lives.

Devon worked some time doing marketing for companies in engineering and construction and moved on to the financial industry thinking the bigger paycheck would be enough to make her happy.  However, just nine months later she felt like a prisoner of the corporate world, while her husband – a business owner – enjoy the flexibility to pursue passions like snowboarding. Inspired by his freedom, she leveraged her corporate contacts and industry knowledge to launch her own business, determined to reclaim control of her time.

For her part, Amanda started working for an agency right out of college. Armed with a degree in PR and journalism and zero knowledge about the digital marketing world, she quickly developed expertise and built her own client relationships. As her confidence grew, she realized she didn't want the constraints of office-based work. Since it was the early 2000s, the thought of working remote was unimaginable and something she would have to pursue on her own. Finally, she started her own small niche agency in 2007.

Of course, both women soon discovered that entrepreneurship wasn't the straightforward path to freedom they'd envisioned. Their businesses brought stress, sleepless nights, and the weighty responsibility of delivering results for clients. The service-based nature of their work meant constantly seeking ways to improve outcomes, often making it difficult to maintain focus amid competing priorities.

When Devon and Amanda finally joined forces in 2019, they brought together the valuable lessons each had learned about the industry and business ownership—creating a partnership built on shared experience and complementary strengths.

A Collaboration to Unlock Freedom and Have a Higher Impact

Even before joining forces, Devon and Amanda were working together in several projects and found they complemented each other very well. In fact, Amanda felt their projects together were the ones causing her less stress. While working with Devon meant she had someone covering for her while she was on vacation, for instance, the clients from projects she was handling by herself wanted her attention 24/7.

Both women had achieved a level of success that allowed them to pay their bills and maintain a comfortable lifestyle but realized that to truly thrive, they needed to shift their focus from merely sustaining their businesses to scaling them.

More than just a desire for more revenue they understood the benefits that would come from collaboration. Wearing multiple hats and managing every aspect of their businesses was unsustainable. Instead, merging their strengths and resources, would allow them to create a more efficient operation that allowed them to focus on their core competencies.

Furthermore, Amanda liked the idea of having someone to discuss her ideas with, something she missed from her days of corporate work and that can be invaluable for agency owners who constantly feel isolated and burdened by their responsibilities.

The Pivot that Paid Off: Finding Their Winning Niche

Even though Devon and Amanda initially targeted the roofing industry, they quickly lost focus and found themselves working with an eclectic mix of clients across dog training, cannabis, IT, and other unrelated sectors. This scattered approach, while diverse, undermined their ability to establish a distinctive brand identity.

Thankfully, they later found their footing through their engagement with the Breakthrough Academy, a contractor coaching group. By connecting with contractors in various trades, including electricians and landscapers, they discovered a niche that aligned with their strengths and expertise. Soon they were delivering exceptional results for clients in plumbing, electrical, and landscaping businesses and – even though they hesitated to make it official – they had a niche.

Furthermore, coming together proved to be the best decision once they realized that the home services market was saturated with subpar providers, and hence scaling their business was also an opportunity to reach a broader audience and amplify their message as credible thought leaders. This mission directly inspired their podcast as a platform to spread their message and positively impact an industry often plagued by questionable practices.

The next challenge they face is expanding beyond referral-based growth to develop a sustainable client acquisition pipeline.

Why Scaling Your Agency Is Worth the Fear

Although Devon and Amanda ultimately decided to scale their business to reach a wider audience, many agency owners initially resist growth, fearing it will only increase their workload and responsibilities.

While expanding and managing a larger team may seem daunting, the ability to focus on the aspects you love while delegating tasks that others could handle more effectively proves tremendously rewarding.

Amanda, for instance, was excited to find people who excelled in areas where she struggled and empowering them to thrive. Once she did, she was able to delegate all the content creation work she had been handling and focus her time on different areas.

This is a step that agency owners will get to enjoy not only when they find the right talent but specifically when they find self-managing professionals who take ownership of their work. It’s a move that will take you to a remarkable milestone —the moment when new clients are successfully onboarded without requiring any involvement from the founder.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How are you adapting to the many changes in the industry and economy? For many agency owners this is a golden era for the business. Of course, not everyone will thrive—success depends largely on your ability to adapt.

In this episode learn how our guest has mastered adaptation through several economic downturns over the years, emerging from each crisis as a more prepared and confident leader. Today, he shares the pivotal moments when his agency could have joined countless others in closing their doors, but instead discovered pathways to emerge stronger than ever.

Tune in to learn how he navigated each crisis, how embracing remote work has enhanced nearly every aspect of his agency's culture and operations, and why he firmly believes that despite—or perhaps because of—today's challenges, there has never been a better time to be in the agency business.

Dan Kahn is the founder of Kahn Media, an integrated marketing agency specializing in automotive and luxury brands. He shares insights into his journey in the marketing world, starting with public relations and evolving into a diverse agency model.

Dan also looks back at the different ways he handles times of economic downturns in his agency, and how his leadership was shaped by these times of turmoil. Additionally, he introduces his newer venture, TRED, an outdoor recreation-focused agency emphasizing experiential marketing.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• 3 ways to weather economic downturns.

• Learning to be a better leader for a remote team.

•  Focus on the media, not the message.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Sometimes Bigger Clients Doesn’t Equate to Big Success

Dan grew up watching his father weather the volatile nature of business ownership and promised himself he'd never subject himself to such instability. However, his passion for automobiles guided him along a path from automotive journalism to PR work, and ultimately to founding his own agency.

Hence, his entrepreneurial journey began with a strong foundation in the automotive industry, where he built a solid reputation working with notable clients like Lotus and Maserati, and handling high-profile events such as the SEMA automotive trade show. However, his ability to adapt was truly put to the test during the pandemic.

When the world came to a standstill in 2020, many businesses found themselves grappling with significant revenue declines and uncertainty about the future and his agency was no exception. Dan found that while most of his corporate clients were pulling back, smaller clients like Lotus were easier to innovate with and willing to test new approaches.

This is how he came up with the idea of handling car delivery services directly to journalists. With automotive press fleets locked down and journalists confined to their homes, Dan and his team were gaining lots of attention with this stunt, to the point that they achieved greater media exposure than larger competitors like Porsche.

3 Ways to Face Times of Economic Crisis

1. Grow stronger as a leader

According to Dan, he was a different type of leader back when he faced his first economic downturn in 2013 and, as a result, defaulted to putting everything on his shoulders. Having experienced consistent 50% growth for several years, he felt the agency was doing well enough and he could lay back on doing new business development.

Unfortunately, this decision coincided with some critical financial decisions. They had relocate to a more expensive town while taking on higher office rent and lost two big clients in one week.

His world came crushing down, he burned through his savings, and it took a lot to get through that situation. With no delegation strategy in place, Dan shouldered the entire burden of recovery himself. His dreams of reducing his workload vanished as he struggled to lead the team through this crisis. While the agency eventually recovered and emerged stronger than before, the experience took a toll on his health.

2. Innovate and pivot quickly

When the global shutdown of 2020 threatened Dan's agency with another economic disaster—particularly since events accounted for 30% of their revenue were canceled in rapid succession, Dan found himself in a better position to face the situation this time.

He had a good leadership team, excellent client relationships and the agency was overall better prepared to figure out how to stay afloat during lockdowns.

Rather than shouldering the burden individually, Dan and his leadership team collaborated closely with clients to develop innovative alternatives and pivoted quickly to create virtual experiences that maintained audience engagement despite physical restrictions.

3. Execute the highest levels of service

Finally, the agency’s latest critical moment happened last year, during economic shifts that hit many industries. Clients were pulling back on expenses as Dan had just launched a second agency, which requires a huge amount of capital. In part, it was the result of normal economic cycles during an election year but Dan admits it was also the result of poor planning on his part.

After spending much of 2023 investing the first agency’s profits into the launch of the second agency, it hit him in December that clients’ annual contract renewals weren’t going as smoothly as he’d hope. He started to see just how bad Q1 of 2024 could be if he didn’t course correct.

Once again, he relied on his team, who were tasked with continuing to execute at the highest level while he focused on business development. He also started focusing more on growing existing clients, after years with a laser focus on new business development, and invested some of his own savings into pulling the agency back up.

Dan was also honest about the agency’s situation with some key clients, who agreed to pay the year in full with a discount. Finally he put a heavy focus on delivering the best customer experience – aiming to become undeniable – following the teachings of Unreasonable Hospitality, by Will Guidara. The team all read the book and were instructed to apply those principles with each client.

The result? Q1 was still a mess but things turned up by Q2 and by the end of the year they had record revenue and profits.

Choosing Results Over Proximity

Like many agencies, Dan’s business runs most operations on remote, with only five to six team members coming into the office on a regular basis and some coming in once or twice a week. Although this shift does make it harder to get everyone on the same page and focused on the same target – and it does make training harder –, Dan admits it’s better in almost every other aspect.

Most critically, the remote structure grants access to an elite talent pool—a priority Dan values far above physical proximity. Whether team members work part-time from Alaska or elsewhere, his focus is on results rather than location.

With a leadership philosophy that has changed from micromanaging to inspiring, he understands you need to trust your team to work remote. This comes after a lot of personal development work as he learned to listen more effectively and improve as a leader by taking guidance from his own team. This then led to identifying some necessary changes in the agency’s culture, including replacing senior staff members who lacked leadership qualities. Now, instead of managing his team and overworking himself, he takes the time to enjoy his life.

Finally, coaching and therapy have also help Dan open his eyes to the importance of diverse personality types within a leadership team. While he used to expect his team to tackle any situation exactly as he would, he now appreciates that this kind of mindset can lead to chaos in the team. Instead, varied perspectives in decision-making processes can lead to much better results.

Why this is a Great Time to be an Agency Owner

With traditional media on its deathbed, Dan believes this is actually the golden age for agency business, positioning communication professionals at the forefront of media evolution. He sees this as the optimal moment to launch podcasts and establish dominance in emerging media channels.

Not everyone will adapt to these changes, and some agencies are struggling because of this. However, if you can adapt and make the best of this unbelievable moment in time with innovations like AI and much more freedom to be creative and innovative, you stand poised to thrive.

Furthermore, nowadays people are much more willing to work with smaller agencies, relieving agency owners from the expectations of having a huge team or a fancy office. Instead, you get to focus on the ideas and building the best team possible with people from all over the world, which makes it a great time to be in this business.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you feel stuck in your agency journey? Are you trying to figure out the next step to grow? Don’t know what you don’t know but you DO know something is holding you back? These can be hard questions to figure out when you feel you have little to no support to help you identify areas of improvement and make necessary changes. This featured guest felt her agency was doing well with their defined niche, and capabilities. However, something was missing — as an owner, she felt isolated. This all changed when she joined an agency owner community where she could openly share her doubts and struggles while receiving actionable feedback and support.

This pivotal decision transformed not only how she operated her business but also accelerated her personal development as a leader. Discover her experience building a business, the defining moment when she first identified as a true entrepreneur, and the two critical pivots that marked significant milestones in her agency's growth trajectory.

Jennifer McPherson is the owner of Chickenango Marketing Solutions, a specialized marketing agency focusing on public involvement and marketing for engineering, construction, oil and gas utility clients. She shares her journey from spending 27 years in marketing roles within engineering firms to launching her own agency seven years ago.

She discusses the motivation behind her transition and the challenges of building a business from the ground up. Jennifer reflects on the moment she realized her agency had truly become a real business and why the mastermind community has meant so much in the growth and self-improvement she’s experienced in recent years.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Community as the solution to agency owner isolation.

• Stop relying on project-based work.

• Finding fulfillment in the agency journey. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

The Leap from Corporate Marketing to Agency Founder

Jennifer spent most of her career working on marketing roles within engineering firms, taking the step to venture on her own just seven years ago. Feeling a need for a change in direction, she set out to create an agency that would focus more on the engineering, construction, and oil & gas niche.

Building her business, Jennifer quickly discovered that agency ownership extended far beyond simply practicing her marketing expertise independently. It demanded she master numerous aspects of running a company and navigate countless unexpected challenges. Despite these hurdles, she didn't fully perceive her venture as a legitimate business until she began hiring employees. Suddenly, her agency was no longer just a personal side hustle but an enterprise supporting other people's livelihoods, adding a profound layer of responsibility to her role as founder.

2 Pivots That Changed the Agency’s Growth Trajectory

In the years following her agency's launch, Jennifer achieved notable success and growth. Despite her professional achievement, she felt increasingly isolated in her role as an agency owner. Without connections to peers facing similar challenges, she lacked a support network of individuals who truly understood her unique experiences. Looking back, two important shifts got her out of that place:

1. Community. Discovering Agency Mastery was a complete game changer for Jennifer. (This isn’t just a shameless plug — but if not us, then find your people!) In addition to being the support she needed, this agency owner community also completely changed the way she ran her agency. With the mastermind’s support, she went from figuring things out on her own to hiring a Chief Operating Officer, implementing efficient systems, and shifting her focus from being an operator to a true leader. The community also helped Jennifer get over the need to compare her success to others. The inherently competitive nature of the agency world often fosters unhealthy comparisons based on incomplete information about others' successes. Through her mastermind involvement, Jennifer gained insight into fellow owners' challenges, recognizing most face similar obstacles. She’s also learned that community, a laser focus, and the right systems are the only things that will help you get by during rough patches.

2. Predictable Cash Flow. Another pivotal moment was restructuring her business model to reduce dependency on project-based work. Her agency's focus on public involvement had previously meant operating on a project-by-project basis, a very difficult model to sustain since you’re always choosing a next project and not building recurring revenue. With this pivot, her agency can now focus more on growth and building a pipeline to secure recurring revenue. This way, she is finally stepping out of being in the business to working on the business and focusing on its future. She is able to see that the future of her agency is beyond just her involvement.

Finding Fulfillment in the Agency Journey

Entrepreneurs often become fixated on end goals—whether it’s selling a business, achieving financial independence, or reaching a certain level of market dominance. However, to make your business journey a truly fulfilling one, you’ll need to do more.

The journey of entrepreneurship is not just about hard work and determination. Luck and having the right team and community all play a role in what you enjoy doing and what you come to know as your agency’s success. Many agency owners may feel frustrated by the daily grind and dream of selling their agency to feel free, but come to miss team work and sense of accomplishment after selling. Recognizing that the journey involves both struggle and triumph allows entrepreneurs to appreciate their efforts and find value in the process.

In her experience, Jennifer loves the relationship building and connections as much as she loves winning. This is why she has come to define success as a journey is rich with learning opportunities, personal growth, and meaningful connections that contribute to a fulfilling entrepreneurial life.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Have you ever turned to freelancers to grow your agency’s capabilities? What about using fractional support once you realized you couldn’t do everything as the founder and face of the agency? What if the key to sustainable growth isn’t building a massive in-house team, but leveraging the right fractional support at the right time?

Today’s guests are two agency owners who turned a modest freelance setup into a thriving multimillion-dollar business—largely through referrals and the strength of their personal networks. They share how a flexible team of contractors became their secret weapon, offering the agility to scale without the overhead of a traditional agency structure. Tune in to learn how former competitors found a way to build a successful collaboration and why fractional support was a big part of their operation from the start.

Sydney Mulligan and Lauren Aquilino are the co-founders of Emmie Collective, a for-hire network of elite independent & freelance marketing, sales, and revops consultants with big tech energy. They share their journey of entrepreneurship, reflect on their backgrounds as former competitors in the marketing industry, and the bond that brought them together.

Sydney also recounts her experience of being laid off while on maternity leave, which sparked the idea for Emmie Collective while Lauren discusses her transition from freelancing to building a business as demand for her services grew.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why the fractional model was the best option for bootstrapping an agency.

• When should the agency owners stop being the face of the agency?

• External funding vs. control in agency growth. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

When Competitors Become Co-Founders

Before forming their partnership, Sydney and Lauren worked at competing agencies while also participating in Marketo's customer champion program. Their paths diverged when both eventually left their respective agencies—Lauren to pursue freelance work, initially planning for just 10 hours weekly during summer to rest after quitting her job. However, her freelance business quickly expanded beyond expectations, growing to 20 hours weekly and requiring additional contractor support.

Meanwhile, Sydney had taken an in-house position but faced an unexpected setback when she was laid off during her maternity leave. As she navigated the job interview process, she began conversations with Lauren, who was contemplating transforming her freelance operation into a formal business. Lauren recognized Sydney as a valuable potential partner—in fact, the only person she would consider building a business with.

After discussing their business vision, they decided it was time to meet face-to-face. Their first in-person meeting in Florida became what they jokingly refer to as their "speed dating" session. During this three-day encounter, they exchanged ideas and developed business plans while Sydney cared for her six-week-old baby. The meeting proved decisive—by the time they both landed back home, they had confirmed their mutual desire to build an agency together.

Why the Fractional Model Is Best for Bootstraping an Agency

Their participation in the customer champion program helped Sydney and Lauren establish strong reputations within a specialized niche market. With this foundation, they were able to launch their agency business with a strong base of referral clients.

One unexpected advantage they discovered was the relative ease of attracting consultants eager to work with their new agency. Anticipating potential staffing challenges typical for startups, they had proactively designed their business model around freelancers and contractors. This strategy allowed them to sidestep the common industry pressure of requiring employees to meet specific billable hour quotas. Instead, freelancers had the flexibility to determine their own workload and schedules.

To this day they continue to work with consultants, firmly believing that fractional support provides clients with optimal access to senior specialized expertise. By leveraging fractional experts, their agency effectively addresses specific client challenges, enhances operational efficiency, and frees internal resources to focus on strategic growth initiatives.

When Should the Founders Stop Being the Face of the Agency? Balancing Growth and Client Relationships

Sydney and Lauren's agency growth eventually confronted them with the challenge of hitting the limit on what they could do by themselves. With the agency growing, more and more clients and consultants coming in, and traveling for events, it just got to be too much.

Sydney recalls a particularly stressful period when she felt overwhelmed, unable to keep track of their growing client base and the myriad responsibilities that came with it. They recognized they could no longer manage everything alone. When an agency owner clings to control it causes issues with bottlenecking, even become an operational issue and their agency’s biggest profit leak.

For Sydney and Lauren, was time for a change and the first crucial step was hiring a fractional account manager to ensure there was someone else keeping track of every client. This not only alleviated some of the burdens on Sydney but also allowed them to focus on strategic growth rather than getting bogged down in day-to-day operations.

It’s not an easy shift to make, and quite tricky for Sydney and Lauren, who built the agency on the back of their own networks and therefore are still the face of it. They continue to wrestle with how much to pull back, risking that clients feel they no longer interact with them.

For those facing similar challenges, it's worth noting that even prominent agency leaders like Gary Vaynerchuk maintain their status as organizational figureheads while having minimal involvement in daily operations. This successful transition typically requires thoroughly training team members in core agency values to ensure consistent decision-making and actively promoting team capabilities to clients—emphasizing that a dedicated team provides superior service compared to founder-only support.

External Funding vs. Control in Agency Growth

After bootstrapping their business, Sydney and Lauren now face the question of whether or not to take on funding to continue to scale. While they recognize the potential advantages that investment capital could bring—accelerated expansion and resources for recruiting top talent—they also remain cautious about the significant tradeoffs involved.

Most of all, they worry about the fundamental shift from being independent business owners to essentially working for investors since "once you start raising money, you'll always be raising money"—with a continuous cycle of accountability to external stakeholders.

For the time being, they continue to prioritize maintaining complete control over their growth trajectory, preferring the stability and autonomy of their current approach even if it means potentially slower expansion.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you have a sales system in place for showcasing your agencies services at a low-cost price point that creates an easy “yes” for your prospects? Many agencies are giving away insights in order to land big projects. However, a well-crafted foot-in-the-door offer helps you close clients faster by giving them a taste of what it’s like to work with your agency, but also allows you to qualify whether a prospect is the right fit for your agency and team.

Today’s featured guest shares how productizing his offer helped streamline his sales process and communicate a clear value proposition. Furthermore, after building his strategic foot-in-the-door offer, he’s been testing different pricing models to make it an easy “yes” for prospects while still attracting high-quality clients.

Discover practical insights on scaling your agency, improving your sales strategy, and boosting conversion rates with intentional, value-driven offers.

Spencer Powell is the founder of Builder Funnel, a digital marketing agency with roots in direct mail. He shares his journey transforming his family's direct mail business into a digital marketing powerhouse, discusses strategies for converting clients faster and easier, and talks about his recent experience building a foot in the door offer, which he is currently in the process of adapting and testing.

Spencer has been on the show before talking about the game-changing move to get paid for strategy instead of giving away ideas and research for free.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How a productized offer can revolutionize conversions.

• Building a successful foot-in-the-door offer.

• How could rethinking the entry-level pricing benefit sales?

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Three Generations of Marketing Evolution and Adaptability

Spencer's marketing roots run deep as part of a family legacy. His grandfather established a direct mail company that his father later acquired in the 1990s. Demonstrating entrepreneurial spirit early on, Spencer launched his own social media business as a side hustle immediately after college.

The family business reached a turning point when Spencer's father attended an industry event where he heard direct mail was becoming obsolete. Recognizing the need to evolve, he invited Spencer to help transition the agency into the digital era. Together, they developed the agency’s brand, realizing that having a niche would be an important to create a competitive advantage. This new direction proved so promising that they eventually sold off the direct mail division to concentrate fully on growing their digital brand. As the final step in this transformation, Spencer ultimately purchased his father's ownership stake and continued driving the business forward.

How a Productized Offer Revolutionized Conversion Rates

Like many agency owners, Spencer allowed himself to be in the sales seat for far too long, with an offer that included building custom proposals for all incoming prospects – a time-consuming process with unpredictable returns.

The first step out of this was productizing his offer, which led to the creation of the "Remodeler Marketing Blueprint," a fixed-fee service providing clients with comprehensive one-year marketing strategies. This productized approach served dual purposes: it systematized the sales process while establishing a clear value proposition. Clients were offered to either implement the strategies independently using provided resources or hire the agency for full execution.

By doing so, his agency not only streamlined their sales process but also established a clear value proposition and the agency's conversion rates soared from 15% to 70%. Despite this success, a one-year marketing plan was still a huge undertaking and there was opportunity to develop an even more accessible entry-level offering that could serve as a true foot-in-the-door product.

3-Step Agency Sales System to Build a Foot-In-The-Door

Per Jason’s suggestion, Spencer and his team borrowed the structure to build a foot in the door strategy and set up a discovery call – ranging from 15-30 minutes – which they use to assess if the prospect is a good fit, in the right industry, and are asking for services that the agency offers.

If this discovery call is a success, the team will move on to selling a marketing framework call, a $497 call where they do an exhaustive run through of their website, look into their SEO and ads, and walk them through their Attract, Convert, and Measure framework. At the end of the call, the client will either take what they’ve learned and implement it themselves, move on to the next step of working with his agency, or ask for their money back.

The framework was a success, with 35.5% of those who participated in the framework call converted into clients last year. Jason emphasized that the initial discovery call should evaluate whether prospects would be good long-term agency partners rather than just qualifying them for the framework call. Following this advice, Spencer encourages his sales team to book as many calls as possible, to get the practice they need to start discerning which prospects would actually move ahead to work with the agency and which never intended to get beyond that call.

Implementing these steps was a real game changer for Spencer, who can now continually tweak, update, and improve it by recording the sales calls and review them with the team to highlight successes and room for improvement.

All in all, the structure of an offering ladder will make it easier for the prospect, the sales team, and overall for the agency to offer value and better qualify clients.

Rethinking Entry-Level Pricing

Now, Spencer is in the process of reviewing his agency’s foot-in-the-door pricing, by lowering it from the current $497 to around $197. Why charge less? Spencer finds that prospects often need to consult with higher-ups before committing to the current Price, which either slows down the process or could be the end of that interaction. However, these sorts of instances could indicate they’re not speaking with a decision-maker, which agencies ideally should be when it comes to selling a foot in the door.

For now, early results indicated a promising trend, with a notable increase in the number of scheduled calls and successful conversions. On one hand, this is a positive development, but it could also mean that the lower price point is also attracting prospects who are not the agency’s ideal client.

The team is exploring different ways to frame this pricing adjustment, such as positioning it as a limited-time offer or explaining that while the agency barely breaks even at this price point, it serves to identify genuinely interested prospects. They're also careful to clarify that this special rate doesn't reflect their standard hourly billing, which is substantially higher.

It’s something that Spencer will continue to evaluate with his team. If the lower price helps them acquire more clients monthly, it may prove beneficial in the short term and something they can revise in a couple of months looking, for instance, at client retention and how those relationships ultimately played out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

How often and effectively do you communicate with clients? What strategies are you implementing to build trust and develop lasting relationships to retain good clients? We all have blind spots in business, and today's featured guest identified one of the most significant ones for business owners is client communication and how messages succeed or fail to get through effectively.

He’ll share his journey of starting a business with the mission of helping business owners identify and repair communication gaps with clients to forge stronger relationships and discuss how he found his niche. He'll also address common communication blind spots that undermine client relationships and emphasize why agency owners must remember that this is fundamentally a relationship business—one where building connections should precede any sales pitch. Join us for insights into marketing, communication, and the importance of addressing blind spots in both business and life.

Tim Riddle is the founder of Discover Blind Spots, a marketing agency that specializes in helping financial advisors uncover and address these blind spots in their marketing and messaging. He shares his journey into the marketing agency world, the origin of his agency’s unique name, and how his exploration of blind spots in life led him to identify communication as a critical area where businesses often struggle.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Choosing a niche in solving their common blind spots.

• 2 key elements of client communication.

• Letting clients have the spotlight to build trust. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Choosing a Niche and Solving their Common Blind Spot

Tim's agency name, Discover Blind Spots, originated from a book he had written years before contemplating entrepreneurship. In "Blind Spots: What You Don't See Can Hurt You," he explored various cognitive and perceptual gaps people commonly experience. During his research, he found one theme kept coming up: communication failures.

With entrepreneurial insight, Tim recognized this widespread communication gap as a potential business opportunity. He launched his venture with an ambitious vision of transforming business owners' careers through improved communication. Despite starting with no clients and no immediate prospects, he couldn’t let go of the idea without at least trying.

Initially, he started by offering his services for free asking only for positive reviews, aiming to build credibility and visibility. However, the true turning point came unexpectedly during a conversation with a friend who was a financial advisor.

During their conversation, Tim inquired about his friend's client relationship management approach and got the typical answer of meeting with them for lunch every once in a while. When Tim learned his friend had approximately 300 clients but had only arranged a handful of lunches that year, he saw an opportunity to fill that communicational gap and offered a tailored solution that included creating content, both video and written that would reflect the advisor's voice and perspective, to authentically communicate and engage with his clients.

It was a risk to pivot his focus towards financial advisors, a sector he had not originally planned to target, but it was this very risk that led to the establishment of a successful niche for his agency.

Transitioning to Premium Pricing Based on Value

While that was his first introduction to what would become his niche going forward, it did not immediately translate into paid work. The relationship with this financial advisor served as a crucial stepping stone rather than a direct revenue source. That milestone came later, as Tim’s friend introduced him and recommended him to more potential clients and his opportunities in the sector grew.

Once he saw the opportunity to monetize his services, Tim started by charging a modest $500 per project, a common approach among agency owners. Finally, once he landed his first big client, he was asked to come up with a monthly fee and upgraded to charging $5,000 per month. It was a shift to a value-based pricing model most agency owners take too long to adopt and a starting point to truly start scaling the agency.

2 Key Elements of Top-Notch Client Communication

We've all experienced customer service that starts strong during the sales process but deteriorates once the purchase is complete. Poor follow-up communication leaves clients with unanswered questions about their purchase, casting a negative shadow over the entire experience.

1. Responsiveness: Tim believes silence is the enemy in client relationships. He says there's never a good reason to allow communication gaps that make clients question the relationship. Likewise, he warns against applying a transactional mindset to a relationship-driven business. This only serves to frustrate clients and lead to missed opportunities. Being responsive doesn't mean having immediate answers or dropping everything to find them. Often, a simple acknowledgment that you don't have the information yet but are working to get it promptly can significantly reassure clients.

2. Adaptability: Another key aspect of Tim's approach is identifying each client's preferred communication channel early in the relationship. People have different preferences—some avoid phone calls and find emails to be less intrusive while others prefer them as a quicker way to solve an issue. By adapting to the client's preferred mode of communication, agencies can save considerable time and stress.

Interestingly, if you're attentive, clients often reveal their communication preferences through their behavior without you having to ask directly. For instance, if a client rarely responds to emails but answers calls promptly, they likely prefer handling matters quickly by phone. Taking the extra effort to communicate in a style that resonates with each client leads to faster resolutions and more productive partnerships.

Allowing Clients to Have the Spotlight Leads to Trust & Effective Communication

Tim's efforts to adapt to clients have extended beyond just communication channels to improve the overall client experience, particularly during initial meetings. Traditionally, he would schedule two-hour sessions packed with questions, aiming to leave with a comprehensive 90-day action plan.

More recently, however, he began to start the meeting by asking the client “tell me a little about yourself”. This can lead to a 5-minute summary or a 30-minute account of their business’ history but Tim finds letting the client feel heard helps out them at ease and leads to smoother more amicable meetings.

As an expert, you might quickly identify solutions to a client's problems within minutes of meeting them. However, rushing to provide answers won't help establish the trust necessary for a successful partnership. Building that sense of safety requires patience—sitting back and truly listening as clients share what they believe is essential information. This approach enables them to feel confident that you have a complete understanding of their situation before developing an action plan. 

People have a fundamental desire to be understood. By creating space for clients to share their stories and experiences, businesses can cultivate meaningful trust and rapport that serve as the bedrock for successful long-term relationships.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What truly makes clients choose one agency over another? What are the essential qualities that elevate an agency from service provider to trusted partner? Today's featured guest brings a rare 360-degree perspective to these crucial questions.

As a fractional CMO with extensive experience on both sides of the relationship, our guest provides unique insights into the dynamics of successful agency-client partnerships. Tune in for actionable insights that will help agencies strengthen their client relationships, refine their service approach, and position themselves as indispensable strategic partners.

Alex Hultgren is a seasoned fractional CMO with extensive experience in both client and agency roles. He shares his journey through the marketing landscape, from starting at Ford Motor Company and leading marketing efforts at Polaris to transitioning to agency life at Hayworth and later starting his own business. Alex discusses the expectations that brands have when working with agencies, what he used to look for in an ideal agency partner, and the reason he kept his business boutique and has chose to work with contractors.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Learning to forge deep agency partnerships in corporate marketing.

• Elements of effective agency relationships.

• Why he chose to prioritize autonomy over growth.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio and discover how Wix Studio can transform your workflow, boost profits, and strengthen client relationships.

Forging Deep Agency Partnerships in Corporate Marketing

Alex’s professional trajectory spanned both corporate and agency environments before culminating in entrepreneurship. He started his career working at Ford Motor Company, as part of their marketing leadership program for fourteen years, and then running marketing for Victory Motorcycle as part of Polaris. He then went on to work on the agency side as one of the three leads of Walmart’s media accounts at Hayworth. In 2021 he decided to take all that experience to build his own business.

During his time at Ford, Alex only ever worked with one agency team, the team at JTW. Although large corporations normally have many agencies working at different projects at a time, Ford preferred to maintain an exclusive agency partnership and, even when digital marketing started to be an important part of their strategy, they only used other agencies as contractors for limited periods.

On one hand, this meant there weren’t many options if he didn’t like the work, other than asking them to go back to the drawing board. On the other hand, it also meant they formed a deeply integrated partnership, as they were more of an extension of his team than merely external service providers.

By contrast, at Polaris he had a fraction of the budget but found himself coordinating multiple specialized agencies handling different aspects of the business, which proved to be considerable demanding. However, in both cases he always saw agencies as partners and part of his team.

The Foundation of Effective Agency Partnerships

In choosing agencies, one of the major problems Alex encountered was agencies that promised they could deliver on something when they clearly couldn’t. For him, it came down to

1. Could they be trusted to do the work?

2. Did they know what they were doing?

Most clients are looking for agencies that can alleviate their burdens by providing solutions without requiring micromanagement. Hence, an ideal agency partner should be able to take a problem, devise a solution, and communicate progress effectively.

However, trust is not enough when communication is lacking and one of the major hurdles Alex faced working on the client side was getting enough clarity from the company on what they wanted from the agency. To bridge this gap, agencies must take the initiative to foster open lines of communication. This includes asking the right questions to extract meaningful feedback from clients and internal stakeholders.

Finally, Alex also believes an agency should be able to take calculated risks because innovative ideas can sometimes face resistance from traditional corporate structures. The ability to push through skepticism and advocate for creative solutions is a testament to the trust that exists within a strong agency-client relationship. To address this client skepticism about design or content choices, Alex suggests AB testing the material and see how customers behave. This approach shifts the conversation from subjective preferences to measurable customer behavior—the ultimate metric for evaluating marketing effectiveness.

Prioritizing Autonomy Over Growth

Even after successfully scaling his agency, Alex made a deliberate choice to maintain a lean operation, preferring to collaborate with contractors rather than building a traditional team structure. To him, the more traditional style seemed like an option that would take away the flexibility and freedom he hoped to obtain by building his business. Right now, he has the ultimate authority regarding what work and clients he takes on, and it’s not something he would give up.

While operating as a small agency might seem limiting, Alex is part of a group that provides him with extensive capabilities without sacrificing independence. This federation—called the Chameleon Collective, is comprised of 40-50 fractional executives (CMOs, CROs, and CTOs) alongside approximately ninety specialized marketing experts and enables a modular approach to team building.

This model also addresses a problem that plagues big organizations: meeting waste. From his time working at Ford Alex remembers the frustration of back-to-back meetings that yield little value. He sees a need to reevaluate the purpose of meetings, advocating for a shift away from status updates that could be conveyed via email to more focused discussions aimed at problem-solving, as well as scheduling 15-minute meetings instead of defaulting to longer time blocks and empowering team members to opt out of meetings that do not pertain to their roles.

Ultimately, Alex has prioritized an agency model that prioritizes effectiveness, strategic alignment, and adaptability—values that directly contrast with the rigid structures he experienced in his corporate career.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Are you still relying on basic ChatGPT prompts while your competitors create intelligent systems that work for them around the clock? The gap between basic AI users and strategic implementers is widening rapidly—and it could determine which agencies thrive in the coming years.

Today's featured guest leads the pack for this AI revolution. Through systematic implementation of advanced automation solutions, she drove an impressive 20% productivity increase across her agency's operations. By strategically integrating AI technologies throughout their processes, she's transformed her agency's capabilities and efficiency. Additionally, she’s now also helping businesses achieve these same results. Join us as we explore the exciting opportunities AI presents for businesses today and learn about her most successful tool: AI agents.

We welcome back Khushbu Doshi, COO of E2M Solutions, a white label agency partner where she focuses on driving more business and creating a world-class experience for their agency community to help them grow and reach their goals.

With over eight years of experience and having worked with more than 500 agencies, Khushbu dives into her recent journey exploring AI, including a significant productivity boost of 20% through automation. She also talks about AI agents, explaining how they differ from simply using tools like ChatGPT, and highlights their potential to streamline processes and enhance efficiency for agencies.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Why agents are the next step in AI usage in agencies.

• AI-powered onboarding.

• Ideas to expand AI application. 

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The Next Evolution of AI for Agencies: From Prompt Engineering to AI Agents

Most people think of AI innovation as learning to use ChatGPT and asking the right questions to get the most effective answers. While prompt engineering certainly has value, it represents only the beginning of AI's potential for agency operations. The next evolution—AI agents—offers significantly more sophisticated capabilities that can transform agency workflows.

Agents are a more specialized application of artificial intelligence designed to perform specific tasks based on user-defined parameters. How is this relevant for agencies? Unlike general-purpose AI tools, which provide responses based on a broad range of inputs, AI agents can be customized to understand and execute particular functions. They can be trained to understand particular clients, recall campaign histories, apply agency-specific methodologies, and operate within defined strategic frameworks.

This means that agency teams now have the ability to develop custom AI agents trained to operate according to specific requirements. The resulting tool works much better compared to just a conversation with ChatGPT.

AI-Powered Employee Onboarding

For agency owners interested in exploring AI agents, the process is remarkably accessible. Starting on the ChatGPT platform, users can simply select "create," name their agent, and begin training it with relevant information like branding guidelines, past success stories, and common client challenges.

In her case, Khushbu also uses AI agents for onboarding new new team members dreading the prospect of reading through extensive standard operating procedure (SOP) documents. However, it’s still a vital part of their training, so Khushbu thought of updating the process and making it more dynamic by training an agent to be an SOP expert. She fed it all the SOPs and instructed it to answer only the questions asked to it without searching the internet. This way, the SOPs are the agent’s knowledge base, never defaulting to the web for answers.

After implementing this system, Khushbu conducted a comparative test by providing new team members with both traditional SOP documentation and access to the AI agent.

The new team members were fascinated by the idea of not having to go to a supervisor with their questions and maybe feeling inadequate. Instead, they can ask as many questions as they like without feeling judged. This efficiency not only saves time but also allows team members to focus on more strategic tasks rather than getting bogged down in repetitive information retrieval.

Expanding AI Agent Applications in Agency Operations

Quality Assurance Automation

AI agents also excel in quality testing and following precise procedures consistently. You can program an agent to follow detailed checklists, ensuring that all necessary steps in a process are completed efficiently, thereby saving time and resources while maintaining high standards.

Khushbu suggests implementing a fallback strategy for comprehensive quality assessment. When an agent encounters limitations in its testing capability, it should clearly document:

• Which items it successfully evaluated

• Which items it couldn't assess

• Specific reasons for any testing limitations

This strategy delivers substantial efficiency gains even when complete automation isn't possible. If the agent can only check 300 out of a list of 500 points, it has still reduced the amount of work for the assigned employee to do by 200 points.

Creating an AI Agency Within Your Agency

Furthermore, you can program agents to work a specific role within your team and have several agents to communicate with each other. In this sense, you can build an AI social media team, with a CMO, strategist, tester, etc, and automate 90% of the marketing process.

With AI agents generating ideas, testing concepts, producing initial drafts, and evaluating performance metrics, the human team can then focus on selecting optimal approaches, refining creative elements, and adding the distinctive perspective that differentiates the agency's work.

Competitive Intelligence Automation

Finally, it’s also a great way to automate the research needed in your particular industry. If you want to know what your competitors are up to, just program an agent to do that research for you and present a summary of the campaigns they’re running and you’ll be saving a lot of time.

A Wake-Up Call for AI-Reluctant Agencies

Right now it seems every day there are new ways to integrate AI into your agency services and it can be as exciting as it can be overwhelming. Just remember that this technology has the potential to make your life easier in many ways, and that’s how it should be used.

As organizations explore the potential of AI tools, try to remain open-minded and proactive in seeking out innovative solutions. Khushbu encourages listeners to look beyond the mainstream offerings and discover the myriad of tools that can enhance their operations. By doing so, they can position themselves at the forefront of technological advancements and operational efficiency.

Refusing to use AI nowadays would be like refusing to use the internet back in the late 90s. The technology is already here so there’s no going back; It’s only a matter of whether or not you’re willing to adapt and not be left behind.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is SEO still a viable service offering? If you’re an SEO agency, are you at risk for extinction? With AI taking over many industries at the moment, it’s no wonder people are asking if it’s rise means the death of SEO. Today’s featured guest is an SEO expert that found her path into the industry after discovering her passion for tech. She discusses how AI is reshaping the SEO industry — not eliminating it, but transforming its execution and potential. The fundamental principles that have always driven search engine optimization continue to matter, though their implementation evolves alongside technological advancement. Tune in to gain insights into how forward-thinking businesses are adapting their SEO strategies to thrive in this new environment, and gain practical insights for navigating this shifting digital terrain.

Lindsay Halsey is the owner of Pathfinder SEO an agency that helps clients grow their recurring revenue by getting the system, tools, and training to add SEO services to their agency. She reflects on the early days of SEO, reminisces about outdated practices, and talks about why the rise of artificial intelligence and “alternative search engines” does not mean you should stop investing in SEO.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• 3 core principles of SEO that haven’t changed.

• Did AI kill SEO?

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today’s episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio an

Turning a Love of Digital Technology into an SEO Agency

In the early days of SEO, when tactics like hiding keywords in same-colored backgrounds were still common practice, Lindsay was finding her footing in a vastly different field working as a ski patroller and mountain guide.

Her dramatic career shift came through a HTML and CSS course at her local community college that developed a consuming passion for technology. As she devoted increasingly more time to computer work, her hobby naturally transitioned into a professional opportunity, leading to her first position as an SEO account manager at a local agency.

After gaining valuable experience during her two-year tenure at the agency, Lindsay took the entrepreneurial leap. Partnering with a colleague and securing their first client, she launched her own business. In retrospect, she knows their initial pricing structure was too conservative—offering SEO and Google Ads services for merely $500. Despite this undervaluation, she’s proud of having prioritized recurring revenue from the start, a lesson she took from her years at the previous agency. Unlike project-based work, which often creates financial unpredictability, a subscription model provides the stable financial foundation necessary for strategic planning and sustainable growth.

Within the first year of launching their agency, they managed to generate enough recurring revenue to pay themselves salaries that surpassed what they earned in their previous jobs, which was an important victory that helped cement their belief in the business.

3 Core Principles of SEO in 2025:

The principles of SEO have undergone significant transformations over the 15 years that Lindsay has been in the space. At its core, however, the values that guide the industry remain and now Google has gotten better as measuring and rewarding them:

1. User experience. You need to have a well-built and secure website that is easy to use and has good design.

2. Genuine experience and expertise. No more getting away with lame content that just repeats keywords.

3. External validation. There have to be external signals that validate a brand's expertise. This includes back links from reputable websites, positive Google reviews, and the establishment of authority figures within the organization.

Did AI Kill SEO?

The conversation around Search Engine Optimization often oscillates between optimism and skepticism. Lately, it has focused on AI and why its rise means that SEO is dead. Indeed, the rise of AI has also meant a rise of “alternative search engines”. Basically, this means that people are starting to move to ask ChatGPT questions they would have previously asked the Google search engine.

The answers provided by AI are rapidly improving, and users will see both advantages and disadvantages in queries answered by AI and answered by Google.

For her part, Lindsay has been seeing this fear surge every couple of years in the industry and isn’t worried about the inevitable questions of “should I invest in SEO? Will it even be around?” Her answer continues to be a resounding YES. There might be some changes and some trends, but there’s still value of ranking in Google and so it will continue to be a part of a business’s long-term strategy.

Of course, as owner of an SEO agency, Lindsay continues to monitor this rise of alternative search engines and assess where they fall into the industry. It could very well be that they’ll be part of the strategy moving forward. For now, her agency continues to help clients navigate that transition by creating content that helps them rank in all searches.

Ultimately, SEO is adapting to new technologies and user behaviors, and by understanding and leveraging user behavior, businesses can enhance their SEO efforts, leading to greater visibility and success in the digital marketplace.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you have the right team in place to remove yourself from fulfillment and sales? What about a partner that may no longer be aligned with the agency’s vision or culture? Today’s featured guest figured out a perfect niche for his abilities in data analytics and went on to create his agency. Along the road, he was met with unexpected challenges, like finding out the right employees are not necessarily the ones with the most expertise, ending partnerships that turned out to be fundamentally misaligned, and the best way to ensure he’s always working with his ideal audience. Learn about the lessons he’s learned with each bump on the road, and the most important lesson about losing clients to a price increase.

Jacob Baadsgaard is the founder of Disruptive Advertising, a performance marketing agency that only works with selected brands to create game-changing magic and help them reach their goals, make a positive impact on the world, and claim the leading edge in their industries.

With over 13 years in the industry, Jake discusses his journey into digital marketing, how he tested his business model leveraging data to benefit smaller businesses, setting up the mechanisms for an amicable partner split, and how he narrowed down the ideal audience his team needed to focus on to improve client relationships.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• How to make a drama-free partner split.

• Hiring for the needs of the agency as it grows.

• 3 key questions to assess lead viability. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Finding a Gap and Turning Expertise into an Agency

Armed with a degree in information systems, Jake started his career by helping large corporations analyze and integrate their backend customer data, identifying the effectiveness of their paid advertising efforts.

Jacob recognized that even industry giants struggled with data integration and saw an opportunity to build a freelance career offering this specialized expertise. Later he expanded offering beyond large corporations by helping small businesses as well.

As much as he liked data, implementing it was where the money and the opportunities are at. This is how he went from just analyzing datas to helping clients develop smarter marketing strategies. He shows his clients they don’t need to outspend their competition, just outsmart them by spending where it matters most.

Re-Negotiating Price Based on Value

Jacob started offering his services for free to test whether or not his methods could really help grow a business. Once he had clear evidence of his value, the experiment was over and it was time for a structured pricing model, initially charging $2,000 per month and later increasing to $5,000.

However, as he was managing marketing budgets worth hundreds of thousands of dollars per month he realized his rates were still a bargain for these companies. Once he brought up the subject of renegotiating his rate, he faced resistance. Rather than compromise his worth, he held firm at the risk of losing clients by maintaining what he knew was his value. Some clients did go to other agencies, and after realizing how much the work was actually worth, came back willing to work out a new deal with him.

Early Planning for a Partner Split Saves Headaches Later

Jacob realized he needed help on with fulfillment if he wanted to grow. However, he struggled to find the right talent. Initially, he hired his high school best friend, which could have gone sideways in many ways, but thankfully proved to be an effective working relationship.

On the other hand, he had a different experience with his first partner. Lacking confidence in his independent capabilities, he initially sought a partner to help launch the business. Within months, it became clear the partnership was fundamentally misaligned. One of the biggest lessons for him was that he should’ve trusted his own ability to start the business by himself, rather than getting into a partnership he wasn’t 100% sure of.

Fortunately, Jacob had taken the step to work with an attorney who helped him place a clear exit strategy in case things didn’t work out. The pre-agreed terms allowed each partner to retain clients they had originally brought to the business. Thanks to this foresight, the already emotional process of splitting up a partnership ended up not being a logistical nightmare.

Hiring for the Needs of the Agency as it Grows

For any agency owner, the entrepreneurial journey is marked by distinct "no-man's land" moments that challenge their agency's development. For Jacob, the first one he recalls was growing beyond himself, which he solved by hiring three or four people to help him execute contracts and get to a couple million dollars in revenue.

The next hurdle had to do with sales leadership, as he felt the weight handling that part of the business all by himself. While his team had mastered contract execution, Jacob recognized the need to remove himself from the sales process to continue scaling. Initially, he made some expensive hires based on expertise. However, it didn’t yield the results he expected.

The new hires brought with them established methodologies and approaches that may have worked in different contexts but did not align with his agency’s unique needs and culture. In fact, what really worked later on was hiring a young and hungry sales person without a lot of experience but was eager to learn and take things off his plate.

3 Key Questions to Assess Lead Viability

The next challenge Jacob overcame was figuring out his target audience. Without this, his agency was churning as many clients as they were selling on a monthly basis.

As he recalls, the agency’s experiences with proof-of-concept clients often led to a high rate of employee dissatisfaction and operational headaches. These clients, while potentially promising, frequently lacked the financial stability and established business models necessary for a fruitful partnership.

Ultimately, this led the agency to reassess its client selection criteria and better define their target by training the team to ask three important questions when assessing a lead:

1. Are they viable? What is the revenue threshold that makes this company able to afford you? For Jake’s agency, it was three to five million in revenue.

2. Are they win-win minded? Meaning, do they only care about making money or have they shown they also care about their customers and employees?

3. Can you show results in 6 months? Jacob knows its important to be impactful right away. For that reason, he asks himself if the team will be able to make a substantial improvement to the prospect’s business in the first 6 months working together.

If the answer to each of these questions is yes, then it’s right for a successful relationship.

Keep the Message Simple When Marketing Your Agency

There’s a tendency for marketers to complicate their messaging, often in an attempt to convey too much information at once. This approach can confuse potential clients and dilute the core message that needs to be communicated. The point of effective marketing is to attract attention and guide the audience through a clear and structured journey. Jason urges agency owners to have this in mind when doing their own marketing, since this emotional connection can cloud judgment, making it difficult for entrepreneurs to view their marketing strategies objectively.

This mindset shift will be especially necessary when you’re thinking about selling your business, which many business owners can see as selling a part of themselves. Instead of equating your identity with the business, detach your self-worth from their business roles so you can make more rational decisions regarding marketing and business operations that will ultimately lead to better outcomes.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.