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Are you caught in the challenging "no-man's land" of agency ownership—where growth meets gridlock? Despite years of management experience, today's guest discovered that running a digital agency demanded more than strategic acumen alone. His journey reveals the often-overlooked complexities of agency leadership that can transform an owner's dream into an operational maze.

Although he felt comfortable making the strategic decisions as a manager, as an owner he found himself pulled in countless directions. From juggling legal complications, financial decisions, and HR responsibilities—areas far removed from his core strengths and passion for marketing strategy. In the end, he recognized the only way through was setting up the right processes for the agency to grow without him and ultimate decided to sell. Tune in to learn about building a successful marketing agency and the principles that guide his approach to client service.

Robert Royer is the Founder & President of Building Brands Marketing, a full-service marketing consulting agency based in Victoria, Texas. For over 17 years, Royer worked in leadership positions for companies across South Texas building hundreds of marketing strategies for small to large businesses and ultimately worked his way up to starting his own business.

Building Brands Marketing has grown to over 25 employees in that time frame, seeing a rapid growth during the pandemic. Recently, he decided to sell and will talk all about what led to this decision.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• From acquisitions plan to a successful exit.

• Liberating yourself from agency ownership.

• Being aware of the personal costs of agency ownership. 

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Tearing Down One Business Plan and Pivoting to Another

Robert started out selling newspaper ads looking for a way out of the restaurant industry. As newspapers pivoted to digital platforms, he found himself leading a digital agency. This experience provided invaluable insights and the confidence to eventually launch his own venture. In 2018, Building Brands Marketing was born, initially conceived as a lean, independent consulting agency focused on SEO and high-level strategic services.

However, Robert quickly discovered the limitations of a solo operation. Within just two months, he was referring out critical services like video production and website design. The solo work also exposed significant challenges: he lacked direct control over quality and was burning out, working an unsustainable 80-90 hours per week. Finally, he tore down his initial business model and went the route of the more traditional ad agency he thought he’d left behind.

Fortunately, his agency’s unique location in South Texas—an area with limited competition—became a strategic advantage that amplified his growth potential. In fact, the agency quickly attracted people with just the skills he needed, which was key in catapulting his agency just as the pandemic started.

From Acquisition Plans to a Successful Exit

After years of strategic growth and careful positioning, Robert's entrepreneurial journey with Building Brands Marketing reached an unexpected but deliberate conclusion. Just seven years after launching, he made the strategic decision to sell the agency —a move driven by a profound understanding of his own strengths and limitations.

Basically, Robert felt he was holding the agency back and being pulled in too many directions to do things outside his zone of genius. To him, continuing to do things that occupied too much of his time and kept him from focusing on what he does best in the business was leading him to plateau. It also just seemed like the right move considering the synergy between his team and their now parent company.

It relations started out differently, with Robert and his partner looking at agencies to potentially acquire to grow the business. They wanted to scale and be able to focus on what they loved to do, which is the strategy and operational side of the business. The legal, finance, and HR isn’t what they excelled at so they focused on preparing SOPs and systems to hand off that part of the business to someone else.

The decision to sell was based on the synergy they shared with that company and the fact they’re a major player at the national scale. It was a good match, with them bringing value with their expertise as a small business division. The sale not only provided financial rewards but also positioned the agency for continued success under new leadership.

How to Liberate Yourself from Agency Ownership

Why not just hire someone to take over those tasks?  It wasn't a simple matter of outsourcing tasks, but a nuanced reflection of the complex challenges facing agency owners at a critical growth stage. At the cusp of $2-3 million in annual revenue, Robert confronted a common entrepreneurial dilemma: the financial limitations of building a comprehensive in-house team.

Fractional roles can be an interim solution but Robert saw significant drawbacks. Negative experiences led to exhaustive micromanagement, forcing him to constantly verify work quality. It all made him question whether it was possible to effectively bring those roles in-house. Additionally, as someone who ran other businesses, Robert doesn’t feel the need to control every single detail. He just wants to do what he loves and understands it may take sacrificing some things to bring that to fruition

As the agency grew, Robert found himself trapped in an increasingly unsustainable cycle. Despite managing more people and investing more hours, his financial returns remained stagnant, something that happens to many agency owners. At this stage, the business transforms from an exciting venture to a constraining operational burden.

Sustainable growth requires more than hard work—it demands strategic delegation, systematic process development, and the ability to communicate a compelling vision. By selling to Rossman Media Group, Robert chose a path that would liberate him from operational complexities while ensuring the agency's continued potential.

The Personal Cost of Building a Digital Agency

The reality of growing an agency is fraught with challenges that demand significant sacrifices. From long hours to missed family moments, the path to success is paved with dedication, resilience, and a willingness to endure discomfort.

Robert recalls working tirelessly without a single day off, sacrificing precious time with his young son and forgoing holidays. This commitment is not uncommon among agency owners, who often find themselves entrenched in their work, especially during the formative years of their businesses. To him, the initial hustle is essential; it lays the groundwork for future growth and stability. However, it also requires a level of sacrifice that many may not fully comprehend before embarking on this entrepreneurial journey.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you inadvertently holding your agency back? We are all guilty of it! Many agency owners eventually confront a challenging reality: they themselves are the primary bottleneck preventing their business from reaching its full potential. Today's featured agency owner has recognized this critical insight and is actively working to transform his approach. By strategically empowering his team and gradually delegating operational responsibilities, he is creating a pathway for the agency to expand beyond its current limitations. Hear an inspiring conversation about overcoming entrepreneurial challenges and unlocking an agency's true potential through intentional operational restructuring.

Steve Phipps is the founder of Wayfind Marketing, an agency that works with service-based seasoned B2B companies focusing on mapping out clients’ strategy, website, and content for sustainable growth and increased ROI. Steve discusses his journey into the world of digital marketing and shares the pivotal moment inspired him to launch his own agency in 2015.

He emphasizes the importance of strategy in marketing, explaining how his initial offering has evolved into a full-service agency. Listeners will gain insights into how agency owners can prepare the grounds to delegate effectively and stop being the bottlenecks preventing agency growth.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Getting out of your own way: breaking free from the founder’s bottleneck.

• Leading with a clear vision to ensure your team’s success.

• Empowering your sales team to make the process their own. 

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix, an intuitive way to design exceptional sites and a smart addition to your agency’s toolkit. With this flexible tool, your team will be able to take on any project at any scale and focus on the work that matters the most. Check out wixstudio.com and break free from growth bottlenecks.

Breaking Free from Founder's Bottleneck by Facing the Delegation Dilemma

Steve's career took an unexpected turn in 2011 when he transitioned from a corporate digital marketing role to an agency position. His talent and dedication quickly propelled him to the position of VP, where he envisioned a long-term future. However, a sudden turn of events—the unexpected passing of the agency owner and finding himself in line to buy that business.— Although the deal fell through, Steve realized he was ready to step out on his own and launched Wayfine Marketing.

With a strong focus on strategy, he tailored the agency's services to service-based B2B companies, helping them transform scattered marketing efforts into cohesive, lead-generating strategies.

However, as the business grew, he encountered a familiar challenge: he became a bottleneck in his own processes. The strategy development process for clients became a significant source of strain. Despite having a capable team, Steve found himself deeply involved in the intricacies of creating strategy decks, often resorting to late-night work sessions to meet client demands.

Recognizing the need for delegation, Steve is actively working to empower his team. He is committed to upskilling his team members, equipping them with the necessary tools and knowledge to handle strategic tasks. Hence, one of his current challenges is to rework the agency’s processes and systems to where he’s not involved in everything and can focus on the areas where he is strongest and rely on his team for everything else.

Leading with Purpose: How A Clear Mission Drives Team Success

One of Steve's primary goals is to equip his team with the ability to make informed decisions that align with the agency's overarching objectives. By fostering a shared understanding of the agency's mission and goals, he aims to create a culture of clarity and purpose.

 When team members grasp the agency's "North Star," they are better positioned to evaluate opportunities and challenges critically. They can ask themselves: "Does this align with our mission?" and "Is this beneficial to our agency?" By encouraging these thought processes, leaders can ensure that everyone is working towards a common goal.

A clear mission statement serves as a roadmap, guiding the agency's growth and providing team members with a sense of direction. When employees understand the agency's trajectory and their role within it, they are more likely to take ownership of their responsibilities, leading to increased accountability and initiative.

The next step will be to record yourself doing a task you never want to do again. By documenting processes and sharing insights, leaders can create a repository of knowledge that becomes accessible to the entire team and fosters an environment where team members can learn from past experiences, both successes and failures, and apply those lessons to future challenges.

3 Steps to Train an Agency Salesperson for Success

The level of alignment you’ll need to build out your processes in a way that you can be sure the agency can run without you will require hiring integrators who can handle daily operations and management and are adept at managing processes and people.

1. Success Stories. When it comes to preparing your sales team, start by sharing the stories they’ll need to relate to clients and earn their trust. After decades of business ownership, agency owners commonly amass a wealth of knowledge and anecdotes that serve as valuable tools in client interactions. Separate those stories from your personal experience and start teaching them to your team as a way to gain the clients’ trust while they gain experience and, little by little, start creating their own stories.

2. Initial Calls. Once your team has a solid foundation of knowledge and skills, it's time to transition them into a more active role. Begin by training them to conduct initial client calls, providing them with a script and key talking points. Have them shadow you on these calls to observe your techniques and gain practical experience.

3. Increase Autonomy. As they become more confident, allow them to take the lead on calls while you listen in. This approach provides an opportunity for real-time feedback and guidance. Continue this process throughout the entire sales cycle, gradually increasing their autonomy. Soon they’ll be confident enough to sell with only bringing you in to add color, where needed.

Remember, learning is often accompanied by mistakes. Encourage your team to embrace these setbacks as opportunities for growth. By reviewing recorded calls together, you can identify areas for improvement and provide constructive feedback.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Is your team leveraging AI beyond basic content creation? Did you know your sales process can be more efficient with the help of AI? While many agencies focus on AI's obvious applications, today's guest reveals a more innovative approach: using artificial intelligence to mine the wealth of unstructured data generated during sales interactions. By capturing and analyzing these often-overlooked conversations, his agency has discovered valuable insights that are transforming their sales process. In our fascinating discussion, we'll explore how AI is revolutionizing not just data analysis, but the entire advertising landscape. This interview is an in-depth conversation about the convergence of technology, community building, and cutting-edge marketing strategies.

Andrew Eklund is the founder and CEO of Ciceron, a digital agency that excels at amplifying brands by creating bespoke audiences and activating them in the places they are. He shares insights from his journey in the digital landscape, starting from the dawn of the public internet and his early experiences with AOL. He discusses the evolution of his agency from his first clients to now specializing in applying advanced AI to audience segmentation and modeling, and shares what he predicts will and won’t change about our current use of AI in advertising and sales.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Turning sales conversations into strategic assets with AI.

• Why unlocking the capabilities of AI requires engagement.

• Harnessing AI for sales success.

• How AI could change advertising for good.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Educating Clients to Embrace New Technology

Andrew’s pioneering spirit led him to start his agency almost thirty years ago at the dawn of the public internet, back when a digital agency basically set up people’s first email address and websites.

Starting out when people still didn’t know very much about the internet, Andrew often had to overcome skepticism about the viability of online business. His determination to prove that people would eventually embrace e-commerce, despite widespread hesitance to share credit card information online, led him to establish IndieSonic, one of the first independent music online portals. This venture not only validated his predictions but also provided a tangible example to clients of the digital marketplace's potential.

Even with this willingness to engage clients in e-commerce during a time of skepticism, it took many years for most to start embracing it. During the dotcom crash, many predicted the internet's demise and a return to traditional business models. Yet ironically, this period coincided with the emergence of today's tech giants, who would ultimately transform the digital landscape forever.

Turning Daily Sales Conversations into Strategic Assets

Back in 2022, when ChatGPT 3.5 came out, Andrew gathered his team and explained that whatever the future with AI was, they had to be all in on it. To him this was without a doubt the direction things were headed as soon as the technology became available.

He wanted his team to be prepared for a future where platforms like Google and Meta would have features to basically automate their jobs. Instead of rejecting that future, they should embrace it before clients did.

Initially, his team used ChatGPT in the obvious ways, like creating the ad copy. However, it wasn’t the most exciting way to use this technology. Andrew wanted to put it to work in areas where humans struggled so he focused on using it on the often-overlooked and unstructured data generated during human interactions, particularly in sales environments.

When salespeople engage with clients, they gather valuable insights about customer perceptions, needs, and preferences—information that is rarely documented in formal data sets. This intellectual capital, if left unharvested, evaporates daily, representing a missed opportunity for organizations to refine their strategies and improve their offerings.

Now Andrew’s team has implemented a system known as the "intelligence hub," which serves as a central repository for various data sources, including recordings of sales calls. By utilizing AI to analyze these recordings, he can extract meaningful insights that inform sales training, marketing strategies, and product development and captures intellectual capital to transform it into actionable intelligence that drives business success.

Why Experimentation is the Key to Unlocking the True Capabilities of AI

Like many of these AI innovations ChatGPT seems to have gone down in quality over the past year. AI models are not static entities; they require active engagement and adaptation to deliver meaningful results and while it can process vast amounts of data, the quality of its output is heavily dependent on the input it receives and the manner in which queries are structured.

Andrew's approach to these language models is to address them like he would any employee and letting them know they’ve failed at effectively answering a prompt, so it’ll record that failure and provide better results next time.

Moreover, his perspective on the integration of AI models is that there’s no need to stick to just one when they each have varying capabilities. Models like Llama and Gemini offer superior integration with platforms like Google Drive, but may also lack essential features. Hence, businesses must remain agile, willing to explore different models and their functionalities to find the best fit for their specific needs.

Don’t shy away from experimenting with different setups and integrations, especially if you run a small or medium-sized business and don’t have a deep IT infrastructure. Maintain an open mind towards the evolving capabilities of AI. Many users may dismiss a model based on a single poor experience, failing to recognize that AI technology is continually advancing. The technology will get better with time and, meanwhile, remember that longer, more nuanced prompts yield better results and experimentation is the key to unlocking the full potential of AI tools.

Harnessing AI for Sales Success

One area where not enough agency owners are using AI to improve their agency’s performance is sales, where they can use AI insights to significantly enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of the sales processes.

One of the primary advantages of utilizing AI in sales is its ability to analyze vast amounts of data to identify patterns and trends that human analysts might overlook. Sales managers can employ AI to examine recorded sales calls alongside performance metrics from CRM systems like Salesforce. This way, your team can analyze which calls led to conversions and which did not and sales leaders can gain insights into effective communication strategies and customer preferences.

Moreover, AI can assist in filtering and analyzing leads more effectively so sales teams can prioritize their outreach to those with the highest likelihood of conversion, thereby improving overall efficiency.

The Future of AI and Data Privacy

Since the 1990s, when Andrew began helping businesses establish an online presence, he has encountered a common concern among clients - the fear of exposing sensitive information on the internet, where competitors could access and leverage it.

However, as clients learned the importance of SEO and realized their lack of content was hindering website traffic, they became more willing to embrace digital marketing strategies.

Looking ahead, Andrew foresees a future where AI models could replace traditional search engines. Instead of searching, consumers will rely on AI assistants that not only answer queries but also provide relevant context.

As AI-driven insights become more prevalent, often informed by user-generated content rather than brand narratives, companies will have greater incentives to share their data with these models.

Yet, Andrew cautions that not all information should be openly shared with AI. He advocates for the use of private AI platforms, where companies can download and apply open-source models like Llama to their internal networks. While this is not yet widespread, Andrew believes it represents the future of AI-driven business intelligence.

Will People See Less Advertisement?

In Andrew’s opinion, people will continue to be bombarded by advertising for the time being. While advertising agencies must reach their audience, they should do so without being intrusive. He points to Instagram as a successful example, where users actually embrace advertising because of its relevance to their interests. The platform's ability to understand user preferences and recommend desired products has transformed it into a shopping destination, delivering real value to consumers.

Looking ahead, Andrew predicts that over the next five years, AI will revolutionize the economics of advertising. This technology will enable more precise targeting at current cost levels, shifting the focus from broad, low-quality impressions to highly targeted advertising aimed at the individuals who matter.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Have you mastered the art of always obtaining the client's budget? Are you ready to elevate your pricing strategy and focus on quality over quantity? There are certain things that will only get easier with experience. Yet, all agency owners should be aware of how crucial it is to adapt your pricing model and client acquisition strategy to ensure long-term success. Today’s featured guest started his agency in 1997 and has learned a lot about the milestones that changed his agency’s growth path, the things that had to change along the way, and why continuous improvement and evolving capabilities are the best way to adapt to a changing market. Tune in to learn more about the challenges and triumphs of building a successful agency, the pricing strategies that have kept his agency afloat, how he is navigating a recent acquisition, and the improvements yet to be made to cement his agency’s brand.

James Pietruszynski is the CEO of SoulSight, a full-service brand design agency that collaborates with partners to deliver visionary work with a soulful approachability. With 27 years of experience, James shares insights into the evolution of his agency. He reflects on the milestones that have defined his growth journey, the lessons about understanding the value you bring to clients to grow beyond a certain point, what he’s learned from a recent acquisition, and more.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• The factors that drove his agency acquisition.

• Strategies to create sustained agency success.

• Why you should be raising prices instead of taking on new clients.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix, an intuitive way to design exceptional sites and a smart addition to your agency’s toolkit. With this flexible tool, your team will be able to take on any project at any scale and focus on the work that matters the most. Check out wixstudio.com and break free from growth bottlenecks.

Continuous Improvement, Acquisitions, and Evolving Capabilities as the Pillars of Enduring Success

Currently running an agency that is well over the eight-figure mark, James looks back on starting in 1997 and the many milestones that mark this journey, measured primarily through the caliber of clients and strength of brand relationships. One of their first big moments was winning major client Molson Coors, which marked their entry into the realm of Fortune 100 brands.

This initial breakthrough catalyzed the agency's expansion as they continued to grow with a focus on client retention, with some client partnerships spanning two decades, a testament to their commitment to excellence.

As a team, they set their long-term goals through a three-year planning process, where they anticipate potential challenges and identify opportunities for growth. They evaluate what they know and make predictable assumptions of what may happen and then focus on things that need to change and improve to be more efficient.

At the heart of their continued success lies a commitment to evolution and adaptation. James regularly assesses internal capabilities and actively seeks opportunities for enhancement, whether through restructuring creative teams, streamlining operations, or pursuing strategic acquisitions. A recent example is their acquisition of a wellness-focused brand design agency—a strategic move that not only expands their service portfolio but also strengthens their ability to meet clients' changing needs.

Chemistry and Retention as Factors Driving an Agency’s Acquisition Strategy

When acquiring another agency, always take the time to ensure that the values, mission, and vision of both organizations align. For James, chemistry and retention were the most important elements he looked for in an ideal partner, not only for a successful acquisition process but also to foster long-term relationships that drive sustainable growth.

If this chemistry extends beyond just the leadership and through the entire organization, it will influence how teams interact and collaborate post-acquisition, ensuring a smoother transition and integration. As to the second element, Jim was looking for an agency demonstrating five to seven years of client retention.

When it came time to negotiate the purchase, he favored an earn-out model, which has proven consistently effective in his experience. For the most part, he found that the agency partners and leadership team had no problem sticking around after the purchase to help grow the agency so he worked with the leadership team to structure a deal that included both upfront cash and performance-based incentives to ensure they remained motivated to grow the business.

Although it’s not for everyone, for James this model not only protects the acquiring agency’s investment but also fosters a sense of shared purpose and commitment among the teams involved. It reinforces the idea that both parties have a stake in the ongoing success of the agency, thereby enhancing retention on both sides.

Leaving Behind RFPs to Create Sustained Agency Success

Although RFPs were more credible twenty years ago and their first big break with Molson Coors did come as the result of a well-put-together RFP, James believes currently most of their business comes organically through relationships.

By this point in his agency’s growth the team doesn’t participate in many RFPs a year. Agencies nowadays dare to say no to most RFPs, which can serve as a jump-off point to sell a foot-in-the-door strategy and stand out from anybody that is just wasting time preparing that RFP. With this, you’ll already be on their radar and they’ll be much more likely to pay for your services again.

On the other hand, he does acknowledge his agency could be a brand name by now had they focused more on their own marketing to build their reputation. As the work poured in, client work would always take priority, leaving them less and less time to even plan their own marketing strategy.

The challenge of balancing client work with internal marketing efforts is a double-edged sword. Focusing on client needs is no doubt essential for immediate business success; however, neglecting self-promotion can create bottlenecks in growth and limit the agency's visibility in a competitive market.

Jim is now more focused on putting a renewed effort into the agency’s marketing, starting with its website. This will always be a challenge for agency owners but try to not fall into the trap of becoming so client-centric that they lose sight of their own brand identity.

The Art of the Budget Conversation: How to Set Realistic Expectations

Jim prefers to charge hourly rates, which in his view reflects a commitment to transparency and accountability in pricing. Hourly billing can provide clients with a clearer understanding of the time and resources invested in their projects, reinforcing the value delivered. However, it also necessitates that agencies effectively communicate the rationale behind their rates and the expected outcomes, so clients feel confident in their investment.

Obtaining a clear understanding of the client's budget is a critical, yet often overlooked, part of the process. When agencies inquire about budgets upfront, they are frequently met with reluctance, which may stem from the client's desire to gauge the agency's pricing structure without revealing their own financial limitations. In these situations, ask for a budgetary range, even if the client is hesitant to provide specifics. This at least gives the agency a general sense of the client's spending intentions, allowing them to tailor their proposals accordingly. Start with the biggest number “Do you want to spend $1 milion? 100K? 10K?”

Alternatively, present them a new option of buying a strategy session where you help them figure out their goals and gain more clarity. This way, you’ll be positioning yourself as an authority with this foot-on-the-door and they’ll be more likely to hire you once they’ve already established a client relationship.

If they can’t commit to do any of this then they might not be the best client for you, as they lack a basic understanding of what they’re willing to invest on the project. Establishing a budgetary framework early on is essential for setting realistic expectations and ensuring that both the agency and the client are aligned in their goals.

Strategies to Build a Sustainable Agency Business in a Post-Pandemic Landscape

In the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic, James has faced the challenge of agencies lowballing their prices far below what they should be charging. This has at times cost his agency business opportunities, with clients citing his agency's prices as too expensive. However, James recognizes that the right clients will always be willing to pay for the value his agency provides.

In fact, losing business because of price more often than not can be a sign that you’re not properly explaining your process. Work on explaining the results and success you can help bring clients and you’ll get them excited to pay your prices because they’ll recognize the value you’ll be bringing to their business.

Along with the price increases, growing your agency will also lead to taking on fewer clients than you did in previous years. There’s a misconception that agencies must double their client roster to achieve significant revenue increases. Instead, focus on acquiring fewer clients but at higher price points. You’ll get to this point by concentrating your efforts on that your agency truly excels at to more effectively showcase your value.

Other than that, he has been focusing on streamlining processes, making informed decisions quickly, and building strong relationships with clients who can be brand champions within client organizations. This way, agencies can gain insights into pricing thresholds and client expectations so they can better serve their clients while also justifying their pricing structures.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you tired of the endless cycle of client demands and shrinking margins? Is your agency struggling to differentiate itself in a crowded market? How can you elevate your agency from a service provider to a strategic partner? Today's guest shares how he identified an untapped market opportunity that revolutionized his business approach and established his agency as a respected HubSpot and Shopify partner. His experience shows how focusing on internal brand strength, selective client relationships, and strategic pricing can transform an agency's profitability and market position and offers valuable insights for agency owners seeking to break free from the cycle of demanding clients and diminishing returns. Join us for an inspiring conversation about navigating career paths and the importance of adaptability in business.

Bob Afsari is the CEO and founder of Campaign Creators, a full-service digital marketing agency and HubSpot partner focused on helping their clients onboard and optimize their Hubspot environments. Bob shares his unconventional journey from studying neurobiology and working in molecular biology research to launching an agency in 2011. He reflects on the surprising turns of his career as well as expanding partnerships.

In this episode, we’ll discuss:

• Shifting from retainers to productization to redefine agency success.

• Finding the sweet spot between passion, skill, and value.

• Why too many choices kill agency sales.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Revolutionizing HubSpot and Shopify Onboarding

Bob's journey to agency ownership was anything but conventional. After earning a degree in Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavioral Science, he initially planned to pursue a medical career. However, a brief stint in San Diego led him to make a sharp turn, ultimately opening his own agency in 2011.

Today, Bob's agency has become a HubSpot and Shopify partner, specializing in an area ripe for innovation – the onboarding process. Businesses purchasing HubSpot licenses, particularly the professional or enterprise versions, are required to undergo a mandatory onboarding that can be both cumbersome and costly, often taking up to 90 days and requiring significant financial investment.

Recognizing the pain points his clients were facing, Bob stepped in to revolutionize the onboarding experience. By productizing the process, his agency has created a more efficient and cost-effective model. Instead of the traditional 90-day onboarding, they offer a streamlined 20-working-day process, reducing not only the time commitment but also the overall cost by 20% compared to traditional onboarding services.

This innovative approach has allowed Bob's agency to carve out a unique niche in the market, catering to clients ranging from solo entrepreneurs to large corporations that are seeking a more seamless and accessible onboarding experience for their HubSpot and Shopify platforms.

A Product-Led Approach to Agency Profitability

Initially operating on retainers, Bob soon discovered that revenue growth didn't necessarily translate to increased profitability. Instead, it created a challenging cycle of constantly expanding the workforce to meet growing demands.

The traditional retainer model's limitations became increasingly apparent. Clients would pay for monthly hours without clear deliverables, creating uncertainty on both sides. This often led to awkward conversations about unused hours and rollovers, while agencies struggled with workload management and resource allocation.

Recognizing these challenges, Bob started to think of ways to make intangible marketing services tangible by productizing what they did and making sure there was a clear offering that empowered clients to engage with the agency in a way that suited their unique circumstances. This shift greatly helped eliminate the ambiguity.

Some clients preferred to take a gradual approach, while others sought comprehensive solutions immediately and productization allowed for this flexibility, enabling clients to choose how they wished to utilize the agency’s expertise.

As teams become more efficient in deploying these products, the agency can scale its offerings without compromising quality, ultimately leading to enhanced profitability.

Why Too Many Choices Kill Agency Sales

The shift to productized services requires a deep understanding of client needs and a commitment to delivering tailored solutions. Successful agencies not only productize their services internally but also present these offerings clearly to clients.

Bob noticed his team was more often than not racing towards a close. With the new process, they're now more focused on ensuring that clients fully understand the details of each deliverable, even if it's not their initial request. By creating a structured menu of services with defined deliverables and associated costs, agencies eliminate ambiguity and earn the client’s trust.

However, even with the right process, many agencies make the mistake of leaving clients to navigate a sea of options. Instead, take the initiative to guide clients through their options. Rather than overwhelming them with choices taking a consultative approach fosters trust and demonstrates the agency's commitment to understanding the client's unique challenges. Much like a skilled server at a restaurant helps patrons navigate a complex menu; an expert salesperson can streamline the decision-making process by offering targeted recommendations based on specific needs.

Ultimately, when both parties have a shared understanding of the project scope and expected outcomes, the likelihood of scope creep diminishes. The result is a more productive working relationship, where clients feel informed and engaged, and agencies can focus on delivering quality work without the constant pressure of changing requirements.

The Value Intersection: Finding Your Agency's True North

With years of collaborative learning and optimization, Bob has achieved a significant milestone: the ability to say no to the wrong clients. While this was once a challenge, he now realizes that the more he focused on his team's strengths, refining processes, and value-based selling the more saying no actually made him money in the end.

It's natural for new businesses to explore all sorts of opportunities. However, finding your niche involves identifying the sweet spot where passion, skill, and the ability to provide value intersect. An agency may possess passion and skills in a particular area, but without the ability to deliver measurable value to clients, it will struggle to thrive. The intersection of these three elements is where you’ll find your true value proposition.

Having a clear understanding of the agency offerings helps the sales team engage clients more effectively, setting the stage for successful collaborations. This clarity is essential, especially when considering the long-term growth potential of client accounts. If an agency cannot envision how to grow a client’s account, it raises questions about the wisdom of taking that client on in the first place.

Building a Strong Brand from the Inside Out

Agency owners often find themselves caught between client demands, competitive strategies, and the ever-changing technological environment. Amidst this chaos, do not overlook the importance not marketing yourself last. This happened to Bob, who at one point realized his agency was “the cobbler's son who doesn't have shoes". He got to work focusing internally to cultivate a strong brand identity and effectively communicate the agency's true value to clients and prospects.

It took a tremendous effort and focus to finally do it, basically reengineering the agency from the inside out but it’s what has allowed them to create a cohesive narrative that reflects their authentic identity and value proposition.

Additionally, strategic partnerships also play a critical role in authentic internal marketing, as is Bob’s experience with platforms like HubSpot and Shopify. These alliances not only enhance the agency's service offerings but also serve as a testament to its credibility and expertise. However, it is vital for agencies to remain vigilant about the longevity and stability of these partnerships, as reliance on a declining platform can jeopardize their growth.

Finally, Bob reminds agencies to help clients realize the critical importance prioritizing strategy over mere execution. While execution is essential, it should not be the sole focus of an agency's offerings. This shift from a transactional relationship to a strategic partnership allows agencies to provide greater value to their clients, ultimately leading to higher profitability and stronger client loyalty.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Do you cultivate a collaborative culture? Does everyone on your team feel empowered to contribute and share? That is the secret sauce that this guest has learned over the course of his time in the industry. Today’s featured guest will share common branding mistakes as well as how to brand with longevity in mind. His approach challenges common misconceptions about branding, revealing why many businesses falter from the start in their brand-building efforts. To him, the journey to building a successful brand hinges on the ability to validate ideas, fostering a culture of experimentation, and embracing the lessons learned from both successes and failures to navigate the complexities of the market with greater agility. Tune in for an enlightening conversation on the art of branding and fostering a collaborative culture.

David Frederick is the co-founder of Head Over Heels, an agency dedicated to helping brands and consumers build lasting relationships. He shares insights on the common misconceptions surrounding branding and emphasizes the importance of storytelling in creating authentic connections. Plus, he discusses the things people commonly get wrong about branding and consequently fail to convey a brand's essence and highlights the need for original, thoughtful branding strategies.

In this interview, we’ll discuss:

• Common branding mistakes.

• The key to brand longevity.

• Cultivating a collaborative culture as the key to creative success.

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Sponsors and Resources

Wix: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix, an intuitive way to design exceptional sites and a smart addition to your agency’s toolkit. With this flexible tool, your team will be able to take on any project at any scale and focus on the work that matters the most. Check out wixstudio.com and break free from growth bottlenecks.

What People Get Wrong About Branding

Effective branding goes beyond surface-level aesthetics - it's about crafting a compelling narrative that resonates with consumers. However, David has observed that many brands, particularly on short-form media, often miss the mark when it comes to truly understanding and communicating their brand story.

The lack of a deep, nuanced grasp of branding can lead to content that fails to bring the brand to life. This is a critical misstep, as storytelling should be a central pillar in forging meaningful connections with the target audience. This storytelling approach fosters a two-way conversation, allowing consumers to feel involved in the narrative.

Ultimately, consumers are increasingly drawn to brands that authentically align with their values and experiences and creating these experiences will take a deep understanding of the brand’s core identity and a team that cultivates originality and embraces new ideas.

Cultivating Originality as the Key to Brand Longevity

Brands that fail to embrace originality risk becoming indistinguishable from their competitors, reducing their ability to attract and retain loyal customers. To cultivate originality, they must invest time in understanding their core identity. Branding has become formulaic when it should be about who you want to talk to specifically and how you want to address them. Instead, most brands want to follow trends like being on TikTok because it’s the popular thing to do, when their consumer might not even be reached on that platform.

Understanding the core identity of a brand involves thorough exploration of its DNA, including its mission, vision, and values. It requires asking the right questions: What do you stand for? Who is your target audience? How can you communicate your message in a way that resonates with that audience? The answers will help brands carve out a unique space in the market that reflects their true essence.

Cultivating brand originality is an ongoing process that requires a willingness to adapt. Ultimately, it all comes down to the product - no matter how compelling the brand story, a formulaic offering will struggle to gain traction. Once the brand's core identity and value proposition are defined, the focus should shift to aligning growth strategies with the brand's challenges and aspirations.

Identify your challenges and aspirations to form a clear vision of what you want for your business beyond “we want to grow”. For example, if a brand is already recognized within its niche but seeks to reach a broader audience, it should define what that growth looks like. Is it about increasing awareness, generating leads, or enhancing customer engagement? By clarifying these goals, brands can create a roadmap for their branding strategy.

The Art of Collaboration as the Secret to Creative Success

The ability to generate and execute innovative ideas is paramount in this industry, and to David something very much linked to team work. He recounts the time he worked on a commercial featuring Sarah Jessica Parker developing  the concept of a fragrance bottle. Initially, someone proposed the idea of the fragrance bottle going missing, leading to a series of creative developments that would capture the public's imagination.

The campaign was tremendously successful and exemplifies how a single idea can serve as a foundation for a larger narrative, but it is teamwork that enables this idea to flourish.

The team included members from various departments—media, public relations, and brand management—all of whom brought unique perspectives to the table. They had just one rule: no bad ideas, no buts. This diversity of thought allowed them to expand on the initial idea in ways that a single individual might not have envisioned.

By contrast, the creation of the Netflix model was about taking a bad idea and disproving it quickly, which helped them avoid the pitfalls of falling in love with a flawed idea.

Initially, the co-founders thought of renting VHS tapes through the mail. However, it seemed impractical due to the challenges of shipping bulky tapes. By the time DVDs came out, they decided to test the idea and were able to validate the concept within a day, allowing them to move forward with confidence. This rapid validation process prevented them from investing unnecessary time in a non-viable idea and set the stage for their eventual success.

In both cases, fostering a culture of experimentation helped these brands prioritize rapid validation and remain true to their core identity, which was the difference to not only stand out but also forge meaningful connections with consumers, ultimately driving engagement and loyalty.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.